FED: Obstruction

[FleasOf1000Camels]

No outs, R1 at 2nd, R2 at 1st.  B3 attempting sac bunt, but hits soft liner between F1 and F3.

F1 makes diving catch, R1 holds at 2nd, but R2 is half way to 2nd before he realizes ball is caught.

R2 turns to head back to 1st, but gets tangled up with F4...both players go down in a heap 30 feet from 1st.

F1, from his knees, flips ball to F3 who steps on bag while R2 is just getting back to his feet.

MULTIPLE CHOICE:

A.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction.  Award R2 to 2nd, R1 to 3rd.

B.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since R2 was returning to 1st at time of obs that's the base he is awarded.  R1 stays at 2nd.

C.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since 2nd is already occupied, there is no award.  R1 stays at 2nd, R2 returns to1st.

D.  B3 is OUT on catch. and there is NO obstruction because R1 was going to be OUT anyway.  Double play.

 

YES: I realize B and C both get the same net result, but with different possible "justification"

[ALStripes17]

No outs, R1 at 2nd, R2 at 1st.  B3 attempting sac bunt, but hits soft liner between F1 and F3.
F1 makes diving catch, R1 holds at 2nd, but R2 is half way to 2nd before he realizes ball is caught.
R2 turns to head back to 1st, but gets tangled up with F4...both players go down in a heap 30 feet from 1st.
F1, from his knees, flips ball to F3 who steps on bag while R2 is just getting back to his feet.
MULTIPLE CHOICE:
A.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction.  Award F2 to 2nd, F1 to 3rd.
B.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since R2 was returning to 1st at time of obs that's the base he is awarded.  F1 stays at 2nd.
C.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since 2nd is already occupied, there is no award.  R1 stays at 2nd, R2 returns to1st.
D.  B3 is OUT on catch. and there is NO obstruction because R1 was going to be OUT anyway.  Double play.
 
YES: I realize B and C both get the same net result, but with different possible "justification"

I would say A.

It is definitely OBS on F4 and the obstructed runner gets a minimum one base from their last legally occupied base. We award 2B to this OBS runner bc he had already legally acquired 1B (he started there) Make the award for the runner that gets the award, other runners will advance if forced.

[Richvee]

24 minutes ago, FleasOf1000Camels said:

No outs, R1 R1at 2nd, R2 at 1st.  B3 attempting sac bunt, but hits soft liner between F1 and F3.

F1 makes diving catch, R1 R2 holds at 2nd, but R2R1is half way to 2nd before he realizes ball is caught.

R2 R1 turns to head back to 1st, but gets tangled up with F4...both players go down in a heap 30 feet from 1st.

F1, from his knees, flips ball to F3 who steps on bag while R2 R1 is just getting back to his feet.

MULTIPLE CHOICE:

A.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction.  Award F2 R1 to 2nd, F1 R2to 3rd.

B.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since R2 R1 was returning to 1st at time of obs that's the base he is awarded.  F1 R2 stays at 2nd.

C.  B3 is OUT on catch.  F4 is guilty of obstruction, but since 2nd is already occupied, there is no award.  R1 R2 stays at 2nd, R2 R1 returns to1st.

D.  B3 is OUT on catch. and there is NO obstruction because R1 was going to be OUT anyway.  Double play.

 

YES: I realize B and C both get the same net result, but with different possible "justification"

FED A, OBR B? 

[noumpere]

13 hours ago, Richvee said:

FED A, OBR B? 

OBR:  Depends on the timing of the "throw" and the "OBS" --  I'd default to making this OBS during a play and award second. 

[maven]

18 minutes ago, noumpere said:

OBR:  Depends on the timing of the "throw" and the "OBS" --  I'd default to making this OBS during a play and award second. 

As a "when in doubt..." philosophy for OBS (OBR), that's a pretty good one. The defense loses the benefit of the doubt when they violate.

[beerguy55]

For any rule set where the answer is B, where the only "penalty" is giving the runner the base they were going to get anyway, I'd obstruct every single time (or at least every time where I knew it was my only hope of getting the runner).  If I get away with it just once I'm ahead.

[ALStripes17]

For any rule set where the answer is B, where the only "penalty" is giving the runner the base they were going to get anyway, I'd obstruct every single time (or at least every time where I knew it was my only hope of getting the runner).  If I get away with it just once I'm ahead.

But then you have situations where you OBS the runner when your chances of getting the out could have been high. You've now taken an out away from yourself, which is probably what will happen more times than not.

[grayhawk]

Agree with A in all rule sets.  Remember that R1 still has to retouch first or be out on appeal, so don't fall asleep when R1 is completing his award.

[Gfoley4]

35 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Agree with A in all rule sets.  Remember that R1 still has to retouch first or be out on appeal, so don't fall asleep when R1 is completing his award.

so, the proper mechanic for this for OBR (if the throw was being made and clearly a play being made on him) would be "TIME. That's obstruction. You (point at R1) to second. You (point at R2) to third" right? Then the runners would have to make sure and tag up on their own. I'm also wondering what would you say if R1 asks if he has to retouch first before going to second.

[noumpere]

24 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

sI'm also wondering what would you say if R1 asks if he has to retouch first before going to second.

Answer the question.  "Yes."

 

(I recognize that technically the answer is "No, but you'll be liable to be out on appeal if you don't."  I wouldn't answer that way on the field.)

[maven]

42 minutes ago, Gfoley4 said:

I'm also wondering what would you say if R1 asks if he has to retouch first before going to second.

I absolutely answer the question. Good for him to have a clue!

Someone might worry that doing so would be inappropriate coaching. Not IMHO: if I told him to retouch without his asking, then I'd be coaching.

But answering a perfectly sensible rules question pertaining to an unusual circumstance is perfectly legitimate.

[Mudisfun]

44 minutes ago, maven said:

I absolutely answer the question. Good for him to have a clue!

Someone might worry that doing so would be inappropriate coaching. Not IMHO: if I told him to retouch without his asking, then I'd be coaching.

But answering a perfectly sensible rules question pertaining to an unusual circumstance is perfectly legitimate.

I 100% agree... coaching should be discouraged but being civil and answering asked questions when not arguing but looking for clarification? why not. We are all told to be approachable and 'don't be that guy' so in this situation I would also answer the question and move on.

 

 

[Mister B]

Would you kill this on the OBS, or just signal OBS and make sure nothing else happens and then call "Time" I would think that since the OBS was not intentional we have a delayed dead ball. If the defense gets casual, a smart R2 might decide to take off for 3B. 

[maven]

2 minutes ago, Mister B said:

Would you kill this on the OBS, or just signal OBS and make sure nothing else happens and then call "Time" I would think that since the OBS was not intentional we have a delayed dead ball. If the defense gets casual, a smart R2 might decide to take off for 3B. 

All OBS in FED is delayed dead ball.

If an obstructed runner advances beyond the base awarded due to the OBS, he does so at his own risk. If he's thrown out by 15 feet, the out will stand, so I doubt that would qualify him as "smart."

[Mister B]

You expect these guys to know all the rules?  

Is it safe to assume the same for OBR?

[maven]

34 minutes ago, Mister B said:

Is it safe to assume the same for OBR?

Already addressed above.

[Mister B]

Nevermind, it's a type A OBS, so it's dead ball. 

Shakes out some more rust.