What is the best way to handle this

[Coach BIll]

This is not to complain about umpires. I love you guys and empathize with you for dealing with boneheads. But what should one do when a plate umpire is clearly stoned or drunk? We'll deal with the umpire group after - but during a game. This was a varsity high school and the miscues were beyond judgment things. Something was way off. Wild pitches bouncing outside the catchers box - balls bouncing in front of home plate. This wasn't one sided. Both coaches were perplexed. The stands were actually laughing more than jeering him because everyone felt bad. Everyone knew something was wrong. I was proud of how the fans, boys, and coaches handled it. No screaming. Just being dumbfounded. But it was a lesser meaning game - non-district. But what should a coach do in a more meaningful game? Talk to the base ump. There is no doubt from everyone there something was off. 

[JonnyCat]

Serious questions:

1. Was the umpire actually drunk or stoned? Is it possible he was having a medical issue or episode?

2. Was he solo, or did he have a partner?

8 minutes ago, Coach BIll said:

Wild pitches bouncing outside the catchers box - balls bouncing in front of home plate.

3. I'm confused. What was he calling on these pitches?

There are a number of ways to handle this. I'm not sure one is better than the others. Both managers could get together and speak with the umpire, maybe under the guise of a welfare check so to speak. If he is truly impaired, or needs medical attention, then it would be dutiful, not as a coach, but as a human, to address the situation. If he's impaired due to drugs or alcohol, then he has no business being on a field around kids. You would be within your rights to remove the umpire. If he's having a medical condition, then it would be your duty to get him help. Tell him to get off the field, or get him medical attention. I'm not a fan of immediately running to the police to solve every situation. But if he didn't leave, have a school administrator, if available, deal with it and escort the umpire off the field. I'd call the police as a last resort.

In a meaningless game, you could have coaches call the game from behind the mound, or make some other arrangements. I'm assuming in a "meaningful game," this wouldn't happen, or the base umpire would intervene.

Regardless, IMO, you have to address it somehow. Did the coaches not notice or smell anything at the plate meeting? Maybe there wasn't one, IDK.

You have to address it, sooner rather than later. Don't let the game go on, not only could someone get seriously injured, that type of behavior does not belong at any sporting event.

[Coach BIll]

My mistake - calling them strikes - like after a runner took first on a walk - not called on the pitch. Nobody knew what was going on. My inclination was to talk to the base ump to check on him. That's all I could think of. He didn't remember the count on just about every other batter - was asking the catchers and batters - sometimes the scorer - but something was wrong. He was flinching like I've never seen, jumping back about a foot (not exaggerating). We did not notice a smell at the plate meeting - which was very quick. He was a super nice guy - and I'm guessing doesn't get many high school games - because he was petrified of about 88 mph. He had a mask on with no helmet, and that scared me for him. I feel I didn't do him a service by not addressing it. That's why I'm asking. He was older. I thought he had cataracts or was under the influence. 

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Coach BIll said:

He was flinching like I've never seen, jumping back about a foot (not exaggerating). We did not notice a smell at the plate meeting - which was very quick. He was a super nice guy - and I'm guessing doesn't get many high school games - because he was petrified of about 88 mph. He had a mask on with no helmet, and that scared me for him.

Just to clarify, if in fact you had reason to believe that the umpire was under the influence or having a medical issue, then for sure intervene right away. But you have to have reasonable suspicion that one of those things were happening.

It sounds like the umpire just wasn't very good and was in over his head. Could be that since it was a meaningless game, the association was trying him out. News flash, umpires often overestimate, or over exaggerate their abilities or qualifications. Sometimes to get better games, sometimes for money. Or sometimes the associations are strapped to find umpires and just have to staff games with warm bodies. Not sure what happened here.

Understand that this happens sometimes, and no need to berate the umpire, or make a big deal out of it on the field. (I'm not saying you did any of this.) There is a huge shortage of sports officials across all youth sports, for a variety of reasons I won't get into. This maybe just an unfortunate byproduct of that shortage.

If the umpire just sucked, then play the game and respectfully inform the association of what happened. It can be a learning situation for all.

[SeeingEyeDog]

This is a great question, @Coach BIll. I had something VERY similar happen to me last week. A rookie umpire working a HS scrimmage (it was his first time on a HS field) appeared "drunk" or "stoned". I pulled him off the field immediately. We spoke. He takes a variety of prescription meds and said his meds were "out of balance" and "out of phase". We sent him home. My situation was different from yours in that mine was handled umpire to umpire. Yours was obviously coach to umpire...

I would just caution you and everyone reading this...don't presume ANYTHING about ANYONE. It could be they are an addict who used abused alcohol or drugs prior to the game. It could be they took legitimate prescriptions at the wrong time, wrong dosage, etc. It could be it's a hot day, they are dehydrated and now exhibiting "drunk" or "stoned" behaviors.

What is the concern? The concern is...the umpire is not able to functionally call the game and for THEIR safety and the safety of everyone on that field you need to work together to get him off the field. So, address the concern. For a HS game, this is precisely why you should have a school administrator (Athletic Director, Principal, etc.) who is at the facility who can assist. My first step as a coach would be to approach the OTHER umpire and express your concerns as diplomatically as possible and ask him to check on their partner. If you still feel they should be off the field and the partner umpire is not in agreement about that, that's when you have to get the administrator involved. In closing, I hope the game film supports your actions and it's clear that the umpire in question was indeed impaired and unable to function professionally on the field.

~Dawg

[Coach BIll]

2 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

Serious questions:

1. Was the umpire actually drunk or stoned? Is it possible he was having a medical issue or episode?

2. Was he solo, or did he have a partner?

3. I'm confused. What was he calling on these pitches?

There are a number of ways to handle this. I'm not sure one is better than the others. Both managers could get together and speak with the umpire, maybe under the guise of a welfare check so to speak. If he is truly impaired, or needs medical attention, then it would be dutiful, not as a coach, but as a human, to address the situation. If he's impaired due to drugs or alcohol, then he has no business being on a field around kids. You would be within your rights to remove the umpire. If he's having a medical condition, then it would be your duty to get him help. Tell him to get off the field, or get him medical attention. I'm not a fan of immediately running to the police to solve every situation. But if he didn't leave, have a school administrator, if available, deal with it and escort the umpire off the field. I'd call the police as a last resort.

In a meaningless game, you could have coaches call the game from behind the mound, or make some other arrangements. I'm assuming in a "meaningful game," this wouldn't happen, or the base umpire would intervene.

Regardless, IMO, you have to address it somehow. Did the coaches not notice or smell anything at the plate meeting? Maybe there wasn't one, IDK.

You have to address it, sooner rather than later. Don't let the game go on, not only could someone get seriously injured, that type of behavior does not belong at any sporting event.

 

[Coach BIll]

These answers are great and I did feel we should have been more direct while staying respectful to not embarrass him. If it ever comes up again - these answers help. Thanks guys. 

[The Man in Blue]

The best advice has been given, so I will reinforce it with:

I've been with the new guy who was over his head, the old guy who wouldn't give it up, and the guy who was having a medical issue.  When it was a collective/collaborative effort to get through, it was much easier to navigate.

I've never had to deal with chemical impairment, but I have seen it happen.  Everybody needs to work together to get him off the field . . . but more importantly NOT to get him in his car.

I'm curious, @Coach BIll, how do you hire your umpires?  Whether it is directly through your AD, or indirectly through an assignor or association, a phone call needs to be made on the spot.

 

2 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

Or sometimes the associations are strapped to find umpires and just have to staff games with warm bodies.

And THIS is where a significant issue resides.  Schools and assignors need to man up and say "We don't have the coverage, we can't play."  The "warm body because he paid the fees" route is literally dangerous.

 

[Coach BIll]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

The best advice has been given, so I will reinforce it with:

I've been with the new guy who was over his head, the old guy who wouldn't give it up, and the guy who was having a medical issue.  When it was a collective/collaborative effort to get through, it was much easier to navigate.

I've never had to deal with chemical impairment, but I have seen it happen.  Everybody needs to work together to get him off the field . . . but more importantly NOT to get him in his car.

I'm curious, @Coach BIll, how do you hire your umpires?  Whether it is directly through your AD, or indirectly through an assignor or association, a phone call needs to be made on the spot.

 

And THIS is where a significant issue resides.  Schools and assignors need to man up and say "We don't have the coverage, we can't play."  The "warm body because he paid the fees" route is literally dangerous.

 

Thank you. 

It's through an association. They were made aware - we treated it more as a health concern than high/drunk. Just - something was off or he can't see. Told them, (it's true) I am someone who has cataracts growing and need surgery so I know how fast vision can slip. Luckily I'm still near 20/20 but likely will need surgery in the next year or so. In fact, we stressed more we didn't think it was safe for him to be back there in HS games with his severe bailing on every pitch and turning his head.

I think they were light umps as this was a late add game. I've seen a good chunk of the guys in the area and he was new to me, even though he was definitely in his late 60's or 70's.  This was the first game of the day (11am)- it was not hot. If they ask his mate, I think he'll confirm what was happening. Hopefully - he will. I also know some of the orgs just need warm bodies on busy weekends, and we are in full swing now with HS in-season and travel ball ramping up. I don't handle dealing with umps - our administrator does. 

He really was a nice guy trying to get it right. But there were 25 head scratching moments if there was one. For instance, ball call. The kid goes - it hit me. And then he yells, "dead ball" without conferring with the field ump. (It actually did - so he ended up getting it right) Just a lot of stuff like that. It was the first time I ever saw a strike reversed to a ball because a coach questioned it.  It was just a giant mess. I really try to stay in the occasional chirp to let the crew no I'm watching, but just let them do their jobs. Most of the time it's with a joke tone rather than harsh. In this case, I didn't know what to do because I truly felt for him. But I think we made a mistake not getting him off the field - even though doing so would have been uncomfortable. 

[beerguy55]

As a coach and I have reason to believe something is "wrong" (at this point I don't care if it's pot or low blood-sugar), I'm doing "something".  I'm likely first taking an opportunity to talk to the opposite coach to see if he has the same perspective...maybe I'm overreacting.  Assuming there's a base ump, I'm talking with him (maybe even with the other coach)...the bottom line is, this game is not continuing with this umpire. 

At the bare minimum, I'll walk my team away and risk the forfeit.  The league and/or umpire association is getting a call from me the next day.

Ideally, we're calling the guy a cab...or an ambulance...if it's determined he's simply incompetent he can watch/leave, but we're not continuing the farce.

And I HAVE, with the agreement of the other coach, forced an inept umpire (solo) out of a game, where we officiated the remainder of the game ourselves.  To be clear...this has happened ONCE.  And "inept" isn't a strong enough word.  A random passerby would be an improvement.

This is so much easier when games are played at centralized facilities, with many diamonds, where there are going to be other umpires, tournament directors, league officials, UIC's, etc, etc to inject authority.

When you're out in the middle of nowhere in a community/rec game with one or two umpires of varying ages, skill and experience, experienced coaches are, once in a while, forced to make some tough decisions and beg forgiveness.  

 

[Jonump]

This thread and brother beerguy55 made me remember this:

It was a JV game I attended as a parent in my first season umpiring. It was certainly informal, one was team mainstream decent the other was from an underesourced program that had lots of new players, many from families where English wasn't spoken at home and where baseball wasn't necessarily a thing. 

Our coach was younger and the other had been coaching in that school for decades "retiring" from varsity down to JV and now "just helping out". He had a great "been there done that" vibe. This story is from direct observation and our  coaches recounting.

The umpire was older and obviously infirm, hunched over and walking slowly. Players noticed and were laughing to themselves a bit.  He told the coaches he was retiring soon, wasn't physically able to do much, having just got out of the hospital and would have trouble calling the low strike especially and he wouldn't be able to move up the line.

He said didn't do many games but he grew up in the neighborhood and knew the program and when the desperate "we have no umpire" call went out he volunteered to do the game. Our coach after the plate meeting said, "guys, the umpire told me he is basically blind. Don't freak." and then told them what he said. I think the other coach did the same.

So the set up was somewhere between comic and sad, depending on your mood, and the game started. Pretty raw level of play, terrible zone. Some pretty long distance base calls. And the teams were....

great...simply great about it.

There were some shocked looks on some calls, but NO complaints. The coaches occasionally conferred with each other. One coach told the ump "blue I think he got him" on a close play at third against his own player. 

After the game EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on both teams fist bumped him or shook his hand. It was amazing.

[wolfe_man]

12 minutes ago, Jonump said:

After the game EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on both teams fist bumped him or shook his hand. It was amazing.

And this is one of the reasons that I love baseball.  I'm not saying that you wouldn't see it in other sports, but it just feels more at home with baseball.  And why it is our national pastime - and as far as I'm concerned, it always will be.

[Velho]

40 minutes ago, Jonump said:

There were some shocked looks on some calls, but NO complaints. The coaches occasionally conferred with each other. One coach told the ump "blue I think he got him" on a close play at third against his own player. 

I struggle with why every game isn't this way. I understand why but call me an optimist at heart.

[The Man in Blue]

12 hours ago, Jonump said:

The umpire was older and obviously infirm, hunched over and walking slowly. Players noticed and were laughing to themselves a bit.  He told the coaches he was retiring soon, wasn't physically able to do much, having just got out of the hospital and would have trouble calling the low strike especially and he wouldn't be able to move up the line.

He said didn't do many games but he grew up in the neighborhood and knew the program and when the desperate "we have no umpire" call went out he volunteered to do the game. Our coach after the plate meeting said, "guys, the umpire told me he is basically blind. Don't freak." and then told them what he said. I think the other coach did the same.

 

@Jonump, that is a very heartwarming, feel good story with a good ending, but ice ran through my veins when I read the above two paragraphs.

No.  Just no.  Why are we doing this?  This is not safe.  We have got to stop with the "desperate 'we have no umpire'" crap.  

Sometimes you just have to pull the plug.  I worked with a first time umpire today, literal first time.  He was a coach previously, and told me a story about a similar umpire that he had had a few times as a coach.  I asked, "So why did you keep hiring him back?" 

"Well, we needed an umpire."  

"Were you happy with him?"

"Well, no."

"So why did you keep hiring him back?"

If you keep leaving food out, the mice keep coming back. 

 

I know, we have several of them in our area.  For some, they think they need the paycheck.  Others are just looking for something to keep getting them out of their house.  I really want to say, "Harry, I will come pick you up and we can go watch a ballgame instead.  I'll even buy your nachos.  But this?  This is crazy and dangerous."

[beerguy55]

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

No.  Just no.  Why are we doing this?  This is not safe.  We have got to stop with the "desperate 'we have no umpire'" crap.  

Agreed - 100%.  If the game priority is far enough down the list, where the experienced/strong umps are at the "important" games, and you're at the point where you're willing to take literally anyone, then the coaches are better off finding parent volunteers, or coach umps...or, if old enough, even players.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - kids play baseball in schoolyards every day, and in parks every weekend...and they do it without a single adult, parent, coach or certified umpire - and they do it just fine.   The game only NEEDS the players...everything else is icing.