advanced mechanic?

[Tborze]

Looking for clarification on a FED mechanic stated in the Umpires Manual.  Is it true that the BU, on a foul tip caught by the catcher can be automatically called?  Similar to the "voluntary strike".  If so, can you tell me when this was implemented?  

[BigBlue4u]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

Is it true that the BU, on a foul tip caught by the catcher can be automatically called?  Similar to the "voluntary strike".  If so, can you tell me when this was implemented?  

I am not aware of anything in the NFHS umpire manual that refers to this situation. Also, why would it be necessary to signal a foul tip?  If was tipped then dropped by the catcher maybe then, because it would be a foul ball.

[johnnyg08]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

Looking for clarification on a FED mechanic stated in the Umpires Manual.  Is it true that the BU, on a foul tip caught by the catcher can be automatically called?  Similar to the "voluntary strike".  If so, can you tell me when this was implemented?  

Can you post a photo or the verbiage? 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Any umpire is empowered to make any call...it's like with HBP or foul in the box. Plate should get that, yes. If he doesn't and you're on the bases and you have a foul tip caught by F2...grab it. Give the mechanic 2 or 3 times, as nobody is looking for you to make that call. Hopefully, your partner will see you and mirror you. It's not conventional. It's not traditional. It is simply the correct call.

Sounds like something to consider adding to pre-games...

~Dawg

[Tborze]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Can you post a photo or the verbiage? 

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Any umpire is empowered to make any call...it's like with HBP or foul in the box. Plate should get that, yes. If he doesn't and you're on the bases and you have a foul tip caught by F2...grab it. Give the mechanic 2 or 3 times, as nobody is looking for you to make that call. Hopefully, your partner will see you and mirror you. It's not conventional. It's not traditional. It is simply the correct call.

Sounds like something to consider adding to pre-games...

~Dawg

Can any one explain to me any time this mechanic would have value and a reasonable opportunity to be used?

[Tborze]

Learn something new every day!  I love the way they hid this.  lol

Does anyone have an older version to track how long this has been in there?

[johnnyg08]

5 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Okay...yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I struggle with "immediately" but yeah, if BU has the batted ball hitting off of his foot and as PU I don't see it...hell yeah, grab it "Immediately" after I don't. But you better be 100%! 🙂

[Tborze]

9 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Okay...yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I struggle with "immediately" but yeah, if BU has the batted ball hitting off of his foot and as PU I don't see it...hell yeah, grab it "Immediately" after I don't. But you better be 100%! 🙂

That's not the question.  A foul ball YES.  I'm talking about a caught foul tip.

If the PU has a foul ball but the BU has a catch, BU is suppose to come out and immediately call it a catch?

[johnnyg08]

20 minutes ago, Tborze said:

If the PU has a foul ball but the BU has a catch, BU is suppose to come out and immediately call it a catch?

I see a more practical use of this mechanic on an uncaught 3K. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, Replacematt said:

Can any one explain to me any time this mechanic would have value and a reasonable opportunity to be used?

Sure...your partner missed it and you as a field umpire from anywhere on the field have it. Is it a caught foul tip? Yes. Did the plate umpire call it? No? Go ahead and call it with the mechanic and no verbalization as we do. It's the right call. Admittedly, plate has the best view and should get it so, if a field umpire is unsure about any portion of the events, don't call it and default to whatever plate has...again, as we do.

~Dawg

[jimurrayalterego]

2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Any umpire is empowered to make any call...it's like with HBP or foul in the box. Plate should get that, yes. If he doesn't and you're on the bases and you have a foul tip caught by F2...grab it. Give the mechanic 2 or 3 times, as nobody is looking for you to make that call. Hopefully, your partner will see you and mirror you. It's not conventional. It's not traditional. It is simply the correct call.

Sounds like something to consider adding to pre-games...

~Dawg

.it's like with HBP - NO that's not the BU call

foul in the box - yes if PU misses and BU has it 100%

foul tip caught by F2...grab it - NO that's not the BU call

Sounds like something to consider adding to pre-games... Never been a pregame because it shouldn't be done. 

 

 

 

[Replacematt]

31 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Sure...your partner missed it and you as a field umpire from anywhere on the field have it. Is it a caught foul tip? Yes. Did the plate umpire call it? No? Go ahead and call it with the mechanic and no verbalization as we do. It's the right call. Admittedly, plate has the best view and should get it so, if a field umpire is unsure about any portion of the events, don't call it and default to whatever plate has...again, as we do.

~Dawg

What do you mean, my partner missed it? Missed what? The contact between bat and ball? If so, that's meaningless to the outcome. The catch? Then they called it foul, and we have some issues to untangle that can't be done with BU coming in with a call (or maybe not at all.)

[jimurrayalterego]

I'm thinking this thread has something to do with the eve of April 1. 

[Tborze]

11 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I'm thinking this thread has something to do with the eve of April 1. 

I was shown the posted mechanic in the UM at our meeting last night which I never heard of before.  I’m with you and @Replacematt  I also was going to respond to @SeeingEyeDog but he did it for me. 
Was just curious how long this so called “Advance mechanic “ has been in the UM. ?  
 

[jimurrayalterego]

On 4/1/2025 at 10:03 AM, Tborze said:

I was shown the posted mechanic in the UM at our meeting last night which I never heard of before.  I’m with you and @Replacematt  I also was going to respond to @SeeingEyeDog but he did it for me. 
Was just curious how long this so called “Advance mechanic “ has been in the UM. ?  
 

I'm curious whether your jefes at the meeting advised to disregard that bullet point except for batted ball hitting batter in the box. But as to how long, @Lawump mentioned it being newly revised this or last year and I believe he said it was not perfect but some good changes happened

[Tborze]

2 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I'm curious whether your jefes at the meeting advised to disregard that bullet point except for batted ball hitting batter in the box. But as to how long, @Lawyerump mentioned it being newly revised this or last year and I believe he said it was not perfect but some good changes happened

I was adamant to disregard but some seem to hang onto every word as tho it is set in stone.  You know, the guys who make it up as they go but then point to the book and say, see!  Lol

I believe their philosophy is as seeingeye, well sure, you CAN do it. 
Well, I guess that’s FED’s philosophy too!

[Tborze]

@maven @noumpere @lawump

others. Do you agree with the UM? 

[johnnyg08]

On 3/31/2025 at 8:56 PM, Tborze said:

If the PU has a foul ball but the BU has a catch, BU is suppose to come out and immediately call it a catch?

Generally, I would say no to that...under certain circumstances the crew may have to eat it. Under other circumstances, the crew might be able to change it to an out. 

Immediately lends itself to tremendous problems if PU comes up big with a "foul" and there are runners stealing. Bases empty, the crew has options. 

[noumpere]

There is a mechanic where BU shows an open hand (ball hit the ground) or fist (pitch or batted ball was caught) at thigh level. PU can glance at BU before making a call. 

[johnnyg08]

16 minutes ago, noumpere said:

There is a mechanic where BU shows an open hand (ball hit the ground) or fist (pitch or batted ball was caught) at thigh level. PU can glance at BU before making a call. 

That's what I use in my games when working with familiar partners. It works for us. If we're unsure as BU we typically stay off of it. 

[lawump]

5 hours ago, Tborze said:

@maven @noumpere @lawump

others. Do you agree with the UM? 

On a foul ball off the batter...yes.  On the others, no.  For starters, a "foul tip" cannot be dropped (but I digress).  As discussed above, I will discuss in the pre-game meeting that I may give my partner (plate umpire) what I have (caught vs. uncaught) by means of a subtle signal (open hand vs. fist), but that is just to assist him with making the call.  Those are his calls.  

I will, however, use the voluntary strike on a check swing when appropriate as discussed in other umpire mechanics books...even though that is not mentioned in the NFHS book.

[Richvee]

8 minutes ago, lawump said:

I will, however, use the voluntary strike on a check swing when appropriate as discussed in other umpire mechanics books

Good video on that by our friend Patrick

 

[Tborze]

1 hour ago, lawump said:

On a foul ball off the batter...yes.  On the others, no.  For starters, a "foul tip" cannot be dropped (but I digress).  As discussed above, I will discuss in the pre-game meeting that I may give my partner (plate umpire) what I have (caught vs. uncaught) by means of a subtle signal (open hand vs. fist), but that is just to assist him with making the call.  Those are his calls.  

I will, however, use the voluntary strike on a check swing when appropriate as discussed in other umpire mechanics books...even though that is not mentioned in the NFHS book.

So the quoted mechanic in the FED UM posted should be disregarded?  
Can you tell me when that language appeared?  I don’t have access to previous books. 

[lawump]

15 minutes ago, Tborze said:

So the quoted mechanic in the FED UM posted should be disregarded?  
Can you tell me when that language appeared?  I don’t have access to previous books. 

This year, I believe.