Infield Fly Rule

[JonnyCat]

Having kind of a brain fart here and I need some help. OBR, 16u.

In an IFF, does the positioning of the infielders matter when calling it? Are we supposed to judge it if an infielder could have made the catch with ordinary effort from a normal position, regardless where the infielders are set up at that moment?

I seem to remember that positioning does not matter, but I can't find any reference to it in any of my manuals.

Examples: If F4 is playing closer to 2B anticipating a DP, and the ball is hit between F3 and F4. F4 has to run farther than he normally would to catch the ball, do we take that into consideration? If he was playing in his normal position, it would have been a can of corn.

Also, if the shift is on and F5 is playing way over, and the ball is hit right to where a F5 would be normally playing, is that still considered an IFF, even though there is no way anyone playing the shift could have got to it?

I can't seem to find any definitive interpretations on this. Help please! 

[Lou B]

You judge it based on the players' positions at the time of the pitch.

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, Lou B said:

You judge it based on the players' positions at the time of the pitch.

Thanks Lou. But I'm also looking for the verbiage or interpretation written somewhere.

Does anyone know where that exists?

For some reason, I remember reading it somewhere, but I can't find it in any of my manuals.

[flyingron]

There are two points here.    The first is what constitutes an "infielder" and that is called out in the definitions section:   The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders."   The implication that the other infielders are always infielders as well.    The "stations ... on the play".   If you're asking when that "stationing" takes place.   5.02 probably gives the best hint which says it applies when the pitcher starts the movement associated with the delivery.

The second part is what ordinary effort is.    That also is defined in the definitions.   The comments there even say it is subjective.   Leaving your feet (diving, leaping, etc...) is generally considered beyond ordinary.   My interpretation is all that takes place after the ball is hit.

[beerguy55]

When in doubt, remember it's "ordinary effort" not "ordinary positioning".

Where they ARE positioned matters infinitely more than where you think they should be positioned.   You're an umpire...your opinion on out/safe, fair/foul and other subjects of rules, including ordinary effort, is worth more than all the gold in the universe...your opinion on defensive strategy is worth SH*#.

I would also posit it should be their position at time of hit, not TOP*...eg. R1/R2 start a double steal/hit and run...F5 moves to his bag, F6 moves to second - you now have a different level of effort required to catch a fly ball between 2nd and 3rd.

*TOP would dictate whether or not they are an infielder...TOH would dictate the measure of ordinary effort

 

[Tborze]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:26 PM, JonnyCat said:

Having kind of a brain fart here and I need some help. OBR, 16u.

In an IFF, does the positioning of the infielders matter when calling it? Are we supposed to judge it if an infielder could have made the catch with ordinary effort from a normal position, regardless where the infielders are set up at that moment?

I seem to remember that positioning does not matter, but I can't find any reference to it in any of my manuals.

Examples: If F4 is playing closer to 2B anticipating a DP, and the ball is hit between F3 and F4. F4 has to run farther than he normally would to catch the ball, do we take that into consideration? If he was playing in his normal position, it would have been a can of corn.

Also, if the shift is on and F5 is playing way over, and the ball is hit right to where a F5 would be normally playing, is that still considered an IFF, even though there is no way anyone playing the shift could have got to it?

I can't seem to find any definitive interpretations on this. Help please! 

I seem to remember a lengthy discussion last year, or 2, on this. It began with defining outfielders vs infielders at the TOP which led to this topic. 
Maybe if you rub the lamp @Senor Azul may grant your wish  

[JonnyCat]

26 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Maybe if you rub the lamp @Senor Azul may grant your wish  

I hope so!

I'm really looking for something written somewhere so I can reference for a colleague.

I now understand positioning does matter, not sure why I farted on that one! 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. JonnyCat, the only thing I can find is a short discussion about infield fly and players in a shift in the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (section 8.4, footnote 361, p. 155). 

...Had the first baseman been playing in his normal position, he could have easily caught this ball. But on this particular play, he could not have gotten to it with ordinary effort.

[UmpAgain]

Last year I was calling a LL Majors game.  As soon as the pop-up was hit, F4 runs to cover 2B -- kid was on auto pilot.  I call IFF and the ball hits the spot he vacated.  I mean it would have hit him on top of the head if he stayed in his TOP position.  By the time the ball hit the ground he was 20 feet away.  My logic?  An ordinary second basemen at the LL-Major level, playing the ball in an an ordinary way would have made this very ordinary catch.  This kid did something extraordinarily wrong.

 

-Steve

[johnnyg08]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:42 AM, beerguy55 said:

When in doubt, remember it's "ordinary effort" not "ordinary positioning".

This is a great way to look at it as you develop key to improve judgement.