MiLB: Shrinking the game?

[The Man in Blue]

A few days ago, the Mississippi Braves announced they will be leaving Jackson, MS at the end of the 2024 season.  Although I no longer live there, this saddens me greatly.  Nights at Trustmark Field were one of the things that helped me cope (mentally and emotionally) during some of my darkest times there.  It isn't a "state of the art" ballpark, but it sure isn't an aged or antiquated park by any stretch of the imagination.  Nonetheless, the Braves organization will have moved most of its minor league teams to Georgia with this move.

I haven't done the research yet, but I am curious . . . 

Does bringing minor league teams closer to the MLB team actually shrink the fan base of the game?  Is this a trend we are starting to see after MLB's contraction of MiLB?

I would think it would.  While you may be exposing more regional fans to your brand, you are cutting out fans from other areas who might start to root for your team.  The Braves used to house their MiLB programs in Danville, Virginia; Richmond, Virginia; Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; and Pearl, Mississippi.  I would also think that you would be cutting into your own fanbase.  Why would I make the trip to Atlanta when I can just take my kids to Columbus, or Rome, or Lawrenceville?  (I know it isn't the same thing, but from the casual fan-with-a-family perspective . . . )

[The Ripper]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

A few days ago, the Mississippi Braves announced they will be leaving Jackson, MS at the end of the 2024 season.  Although I no longer live there, this saddens me greatly.  Nights at Trustmark Field were one of the things that helped me cope (mentally and emotionally) during some of my darkest times there.  It isn't a "state of the art" ballpark, but it sure isn't an aged or antiquated park by any stretch of the imagination.  Nonetheless, the Braves organization will have moved most of its minor league teams to Georgia with this move.

I haven't done the research yet, but I am curious . . . 

Does bringing minor league teams closer to the MLB team actually shrink the fan base of the game?  Is this a trend we are starting to see after MLB's contraction of MiLB?

I would think it would.  While you may be exposing more regional fans to your brand, you are cutting out fans from other areas who might start to root for your team.  The Braves used to house their MiLB programs in Danville, Virginia; Richmond, Virginia; Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; and Pearl, Mississippi.  I would also think that you would be cutting into your own fanbase.  Why would I make the trip to Atlanta when I can just take my kids to Columbus, or Rome, or Lawrenceville?  (I know it isn't the same thing, but from the casual fan-with-a-family perspective . . . )

I also am sadden and also excited about the “Mississippi” Braves decision to move, I live in the great state of Alabama, and Columbus will be closer for me to go see them play and watch the reason everyone is here to see…THE UMPIRES! I was fortunate enough to work in the ball park in Columbus, where the Braves will be moving in 2025 (Golden Park). I really enjoyed working at the park with 2 really good friends and great umpires. We worked College Summer League games there. The  CHATTA-HOOTS VS THE COLUMBUS MONSTERS. The park is nice but is definitely going to need some work to be a MILB Staidium! The club houses where in right field and our locker room (if you even call it a locker room) was behind the fence in the right field corner. They definitely need more seats and need to make it bigger too. Anyway hope I could be a help, it will be fun to go to a MILB game there and know that I was umpiring on that field. Hope everyone has a great day and never forget… HAPPY UMPIRING!!!

[Velho]

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Why would I make the trip to Atlanta when I can just take my kids to Columbus, or Rome, or Lawrenceville?  (I know it isn't the same thing, but from the casual fan-with-a-family perspective . . . )

First thought that cam to mind was it gives them a place to go since MLB games get more and more expensive (not sure that's a valuable thought or simply sarcastic and/or cynical).

Here is San Jose, the NHL Sharks minor league team play in the same building. Not sure if they now consider that a good move or not. The Shark folks I know have left or I haven't seen them in a while to find out.

 

[umpstu]

CV Firebirds are our AHL team. Much better value then having to drive all the way to L.A. and we have a new venue that is incredible. Also were awarded the 2025 AHL All Star game.

We have an old MILB stadium in Palm Springs, but it is used for some locally organized summer college ball.

[Umpire in Chief]

This is something that baffles me. I remember when the Norfolk Tides changed from the Mets to the Orioles and they were talking about the ease of moving players and consolidating resources, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I thought this was flawed logic. In todays age you can be anywhere in the world in less than 24 hours, so moving players is bunk.

As for consolidating resources, how many resources do they actually share ??? They don't share equipment, facilities, support staff, etc.. As far as I know the Minor League Franchises are independently owned and operated. If it weren't for that I could possibly see consolidating as a way to cut overhead... back then. But today not so much. I manage people and resources in California, Pennsylvania, Utah, Texas and more all from Virginia. 

My uninformed opinion would be to spread out your franchises to build the largest geographical fan-base you can. 

On the other hand free agency has probably ruined that as well, Think about it, the players coming up through the minors, if they make it, probably won't be in the same franchise which would diminish that loyalty. Growing up I saw Mookie Wilson, Daryl Strawberry, Lenny Dyskstra and more play for the Tides and would get excited to see them on the Mets. Today your favorite players at your local franchise could end up anywhere. It's a cargo net vs a ladder now. 

Another thing is the seemingly constant team name changes in the minor leagues. Today when I go to  MiLB game I have to look up who the team is and who they are a part of. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I think a lot of it depends on the market...ATL is the 38th largest city in the US with about 500,000 people living there. I don't think they are cannibalizing the fanbase by moving their farm clubs into the market because there are plenty of people to support both teams. (Mind you, they are not selling out each and every game...) In 2023, ATL was 5th in MLB attendance.

Your smaller market teams would likely see more impact from re-locating their farm system closer to the big league club. I'm sure a lot of times, contracts and other circumstances dictate a change in affiliations and there may not be a lot of options in the moment so, you sometimes get clubs with less-than-favorable geographic affiliates. 

Minor league baseball is a really great value. I haven't been to an MLB game since before the pandemic and I'm not sure I'll ever go again. I live 20 minutes from a Single-A ballpark. It's not a state of the art facility like the newer MLB parks but, it's only 4 years old and for $50 (inclusive of ticket, parking and food) there's no place I'd rather spend that money on a warm, summer evening except maybe a lawn seat at a concert. Best of all, it's ideally located right off a major highway and it's an easy arrival and departure.

@Umpire in Chief, true...we can get anywhere in 24 hours. My MLB team is on the east coast and for a time they had their AAA affiliate on the west coast. Roughly 80% of the players upon arriving and giving their first presser or interview before their debut would say something about the journey, jet lag, etc. I think a lot of this might be players who are from backgrounds where they really didn't travel much growing up so, it's not routine yet for them as a young call up to make cross country flights multiple times per year as part of a season. Recently, the big league club switched affiliations to an east coast club and it was reported that the reason was to give better access to call ups.

I like the idea of having the AAA club no more than 90 minutes away by plane. The rest of the affiliates can be sprinkled about the country in whatever method is going to sustain minor league baseball and provide the most competitive environments for developing pro players.

~Dawg

[BLarson]

I really don't think MiLB is a way to grow a fanbase.  

Our AAA stadium for the Storm Chasers (Kansas City) is 9,000.

Sure...it's a great entertainment for the value, but I don't see it as a vehicle to grow KC fans.   Winning and having stars on your team does.

Also...if you don't pay for some kind of streaming...it's hard find a games to watch on TV.   I loved the days when the superstations WGN (Chicago), TBS (Atlanta), WOR (Mets) showed games...you could see a lot more games easily.

There's just not that many games on the usual options...ESPN, FOX, etc...

You have to pay a premium just to watch games.

[beerguy55]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:27 PM, The Man in Blue said:

Does bringing minor league teams closer to the MLB team actually shrink the fan base of the game?  Is this a trend we are starting to see after MLB's contraction of MiLB?

I would think it would.  While you may be exposing more regional fans to your brand, you are cutting out fans from other areas who might start to root for your team.

I think it's two different discussions...and not even sure if either are applicable.

Is MiLB an avenue for MLB to expand its brand?

Is an MiLB team an avenue for its affiliated MLB to expand ITS brand?

I'm not sure either are true, any more than I think the enormous popularity of high school football in Texas and Pennsylvania has anything to do with the NFL.

You either like baseball or not, and what quality of baseball are you going to want to see in your area.  Up here we have a couple of summer leagues that are designed for NCAA students to be able to play ball while out of school.  And those teams have their following in those towns. (or cities) It's not high quality pro ball...but it's also a helluva lot better than HS or LL.

So, MiLB was contracted to save money...and maybe even to reduce some watering down of the product...but it also means several hundred players need to find other options to play non-MLB ball (or get the hint and retire).  Does this open the door for a competing non-affiliated league??

Is baseball simply something people want to see anywhere they can - and provided it's of some reasonable quality, they'll take any kind of baseball they can if they don't have access to MLB?  I think so.

 

[The Man in Blue]

@beerguy55, you make some good points, but I'm not convinced they hold true for the general public.  The things you describe, I definitely co-sign!  However, I think that the folks here, that is to say typically umpires and people who are discussing the neutral arbitration of the game, are more likely to simply enjoy a great baseball game regardless of who is playing.

More in general, sports fans are tribal and territorial; tending to root for the nearest viable product.  That's why I think it makes more sense for a pro team to spread its affiliates out far and wide to attract a fan base.  Little Timmy's dad took him to a game and they saw Rising Superstar, Jr. play in A ball . . . so they are more likely to follow his career when he goes up to the parent club.  Or, maybe it is like @Umpire in Chief said: free agency has killed all that anyway.

Growing up, I was not a Cubs fan.  Hated the Cubs.  Cardinal fan, born and bred.  But the Peoria Chiefs (at that point in time) were the Cubs' low A team.  I rooted for my Chiefs though.  I went to summer camps and hung out by the bullpens all summer.  I hit off a young Greg Maddux, raced around with the likes of Jerome Walton and Dwight Smith, took batting practice with Rafael Palmeiro, and had my shoes spit on by that son of a bitch Kelly Mann.  I rooted for all those guys when they went up, but I still didn't root for the Cubs.  Had it not been for the Cardinals being so close, I probably would have ended up a Cubs fan.  (I did do a short stint as a Sox fan.)

I suppose that is very different in areas where fans have options though.  Maybe it isn't just bringing the farm teams closer, but bringing them right into the backyard (or even the same city sometimes) that makes little sense to me. 

[beerguy55]

10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

More in general, sports fans are tribal and territorial; tending to root for the nearest viable product. 

I agree completely.  The summer league team I mention above, the Okotoks Dawgs has a rabid following...I go to a couple of games every summer because it's basically the only ball I get around here...I'll go to Toronto or Seattle once in a while, but certainly not once or twice a year.

Having said that, in the 90s the Calgary Cannons were the Mariners farm team.  I'd make it to at least a few games every summer, and they too had their rabid following.  I saw some young stars, including Bret Boone and some guy named Alex Rodriguez.  But they didn't make me a Mariners fan in any way (Expos to this day - they'll never disappoint me again).   Hell, I even saw them play AGAINST Eddie Murray when he was with the Albuquerque Dukes in 97.

If anyone turned me into a Mariners...admirer...it was the combo of Griffey and Randy Johnson, the former Expo.

Went to a Mariners game for a pitching duel between Cole Hamels and Felix Hernandez...it was 7-5 after the third.

[love to ump]

So Beerguy55 is a fellow Canuck....up the road from you, I used to take my kids to AAA Edmonton Trapper Games,

lots of great MLB names came thru over the years  till they left in 2004 to Texas).

The Trappers were affiliated with lots of different teams over the year, but who there parent team was, never

made me a fan of that team...always loyal to the Expos....later forced to switch to Jays, damn you Washington!...but

congrats on 2019 World Series win!!!!!

We have college ball here too, but not the WCBL the Dawgs are in.