high school post season

[mac266]

Post season play is underway here in Colorado, where we transition from 2-man to 3-man crews.  That's a good idea, because despite having an increase of 50% manning, the crew tends to be about 500% better and more accurate on calls.  The angles in 3-man are amazing, but in 2-man they are "almost good enough" sometimes.  I would take a pay cut to work 3-man all the time, but that's not up to me.  My pet peeve is the state association has NO training on 3-man mechanics; they expect you to just know them.  The only reason I know them is because I'm a prospect for an NCAA division 2 conference and get to work their fall games.  Otherwise, I would have been sitting at home reading a mechanics book...which is close to zero learning for me.  Anyway, that's a problem I will address with the state.

First game of a double header, we had all been in contact with one another over text.  We all agreed to be 45 minutes early.  I showed up an hour early because of my Army background ("10 minutes early is late!).  U1 showed up at the agreed upon time.  U3 isn't there.

The two of us get dressed and geared up, But U3 is nowhere to be found.  We called and texted and got no response, until 15 minutes before game time.  He texted back and said he was running late. 

Mind you, this is the first game of the day, and five games are scheduled on that diamond.  The weather was also threatening later in the day, so any delays could have serious impacts on post-season scheduling.  Many of these teams travel 6 or more hours and pay for hotels, etc. because it is post season.  I was pi$$ed, to say the least.  The weather is going to do what the weather is going to do, but the umpires should NEVER be the reason a team has to pay for another night in a hotel. 

U1 and I agreed to get the game going in 2-man, and we started the plate meeting on time.  U3 walked onto the field during the plate meeting, and he was wearing a different jacket than we had previously agreed upon.  I was in a plate coat.  U1 had the black jacket with two white stripes on the shoulders.  U3 had the black jacket with two white stripes and a blue stripe in between.  As PU with a plate coat, I'm supposed to look different than the other two (without a plate coat I would, of course, be in the same jacket as the base umpires).  But this dude with his blue stripe, walking onto the field while we're finishing up the plate meeting was a BAD look.  

Probably 75% of our job is simply maintaining credibility.  ALWAYS do everything to maintain credibility -- with players, coaches, and other umpires!

[concertman1971]

HS State Championship games are this week here in TN. I was fortunate enough to be selected, but I have been warned by many others to keep my head on a swivel and be ready to fill in a hole that is created when one of the 3/4/6 (6 for the last game only) umpires does not slide or rotate. I have also been told that mmany of the guys working have worked little or no 3-man, but that is what we do for the State finals...sigh

[Velho]

3 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

HS State Championship games are this week here in TN. I was fortunate enough to be selected, but I have been warned by many others to keep my head on a swivel and be ready to fill in a hole that is created when one of the 3/4/6 (6 for the last game only) umpires does not slide or rotate. I have also been told that mmany of the guys working have worked little or no 3-man, but that is what we do for the State finals...sigh

I've had conversation with a friend about this. That benefit of better coverage has risk because we don't do it often enough to be great at it.

Example: first 4 man of the year in my local LL championship game (little field) Saturday. R1 so Rotation is on. U2 goes out, I'm U3 and come in. U1 (who is the league UIC) came in too. One of us each ended up on either side of the mound in the working area. We had 2B COVERED!... but not HP. Oops.

Conversely, later in the game we had a perfect four man rotation. U2 out, U3 in to 2B, HP up to 3B, U1 1B and then down to HP. We unwound it perfectly too. It was awesome (and us 4 and our evaluator were the only ones who had a clue something so great happened on a simple double).

 

@concertman1971 Congrats on the post season selection. Let us know how it goes.

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

Example: first 4 man of the year in my local LL championship game (little field) Saturday. R1 so Rotation is on. U2 goes out, I'm U3 and come in. U1 (who is the league UIC) came in too.

This is one of the reasons I dismiss LL as “playpen baseball” (sorry @Velho, and @Mudisfun, and @Aging_Arbiter). Because of the suffocatingly tight 46-60 dimensions and closed bases, U2 is never in, and never really needs to come in; even if either U1 or U3 goes out, then it’d be much more effective to teach “working the bag”. If that takes you inside, then so be it, but it’d be much more effective than teaching a U2 to run to a spot. More often than not, on such small dimensions, U2 stays out, meaning that U3 comes in. U1 never comes in, regardless. Any U1 who comes in needs their cognitive awareness questioned. 

Then, to make things even more maddening, when LL expands to 6-man, they then take catch/no-catch responsibility away from the U2??  And have him go… inside?? Where he’ll never be anyway (on a 46-60)??  All… televised… on… ESPN. 
And we wonder where guys get bad habits from, when we start working anything > 2-man. 

[The Man in Blue]

I didn't know anybody still wore the blue stripe.  Can you even still buy the blue stripe?!

 

Yes to everything you guys said on 3-man.  I absolutely agree with @mac266 that I would take a pay cut to work 3-man regularly.  There is one high school about an hour east of me that pays for 3-man for all their home conference games, but that is the only one I know of that does that.  Like you guys point out, then the states throw 3-man crews on the field and wonder why things don't work perfectly.  Hello?  

[Velho]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

This is one of the reasons I dismiss LL as “playpen baseball” (sorry @Velho, and @Mudisfun, and @Aging_Arbiter). Because of the suffocatingly tight 46-60 dimensions and closed bases, U2 is never in, and never really needs to come in; even if either U1 or U3 goes out, then it’d be much more effective to teach “working the bag”. If that takes you inside, then so be it, but it’d be much more effective than teaching a U2 to run to a spot. More often than not, on such small dimensions, U2 stays out, meaning that U3 comes in. U1 never comes in, regardless. Any U1 who comes in needs their cognitive awareness questioned. 

No offense taken. I understand where you're coming from. We're doing what they teach (which does have U2 or U1 come in at times). As long as we're all on the same page, it seems to work. Like I said, we only do >2 man in post season so I'm still learning it (I haven't gone to the week long training in San Bernardino yet so this is only exposure I get to it). 

[MadMax]

14 hours ago, mac266 said:

I would take a pay cut to work 3-man all the time, but that's not up to me.

 

26 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I absolutely agree with @mac266 that I would take a pay cut to work 3-man regularly. 

We (umpires) are caught between three converging issues: 

1. We have umpire shortages everywhere. Schools would rebel if they found out they can barely get 1 umpire on their game, and have to endure… subpar performance on 2-man game, and other schools in the same region are getting 3-man games. 
2. The most (and only, IMO) effective way to learn 3-man is to do it. Actually, physically, get on a field and do it. Repetitively. When I work 3-man in amateur games, unless I’m working with guys who actively know what they’re doing, I will volunteer to do U3, and then swap with the U1 for an inning or two, then go back to U3. Give the other BU as many reps as possible. And, I will adjust to him, and if the movement is wrong – on paper – I will address that, identify what we should have done, and encourage him that we’ll get another one. This is done in between innings or during (the inevitable) pitching changes. The problem is, other “functional experts” like me are few, and stretched thin, and we lack the time to jump on and do these games. 
3. For non-scholastic ball (such as local leagues, or travel ball, or tournament series), there is a deeply resented phenomenon of providing more service than what was paid for. One of my respected colleagues and assigners told me this, and dissuaded me from doing 3- and 4- man games without being paid full rate. Quote – “Why are you (we) providing 3 umpires on a game when (I had to press them to) they paid for 2? If they want(ed) 3, they should pay for 3.” He has a valid point. Some TDs are such penny-pinchers, if an Umpire goes down, and has to skip a game, or withdraw for an emergency, they actually expect a refund (from the assigner) because there is/was only 1 umpire to do/finish that game! So if we come to them and present we want to do 3-man, when they’ve arranged and paid for 2-man, should they be obligated to pay full rate? 

And as the Joker said – “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” 

In HS at least, I’ve earned that latitude that if there are no other games that need 2-man coverage, and I’m available, I need only call into the Commissioner’s office and be put on the game as the 3rd umpire, and the Commish knows that I’ll work with those 2 umpires’ 3-man experience. 

[dumbdumb]

5 hours ago, MadMax said:

 

We (umpires) are caught between three converging issues: 

1. We have umpire shortages everywhere. Schools would rebel if they found out they can barely get 1 umpire on their game, and have to endure… subpar performance on 2-man game, and other schools in the same region are getting 3-man games. 
2. The most (and only, IMO) effective way to learn 3-man is to do it. Actually, physically, get on a field and do it. Repetitively. When I work 3-man in amateur games, unless I’m working with guys who actively know what they’re doing, I will volunteer to do U3, and then swap with the U1 for an inning or two, then go back to U3. Give the other BU as many reps as possible. And, I will adjust to him, and if the movement is wrong – on paper – I will address that, identify what we should have done, and encourage him that we’ll get another one. This is done in between innings or during (the inevitable) pitching changes. The problem is, other “functional experts” like me are few, and stretched thin, and we lack the time to jump on and do these games. 
3. For non-scholastic ball (such as local leagues, or travel ball, or tournament series), there is a deeply resented phenomenon of providing more service than what was paid for. One of my respected colleagues and assigners told me this, and dissuaded me from doing 3- and 4- man games without being paid full rate. Quote – “Why are you (we) providing 3 umpires on a game when (I had to press them to) they paid for 2? If they want(ed) 3, they should pay for 3.” He has a valid point. Some TDs are such penny-pinchers, if an Umpire goes down, and has to skip a game, or withdraw for an emergency, they actually expect a refund (from the assigner) because there is/was only 1 umpire to do/finish that game! So if we come to them and present we want to do 3-man, when they’ve arranged and paid for 2-man, should they be obligated to pay full rate? 

And as the Joker said – “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” 

In HS at least, I’ve earned that latitude that if there are no other games that need 2-man coverage, and I’m available, I need only call into the Commissioner’s office and be put on the game as the 3rd umpire, and the Commish knows that I’ll work with those 2 umpires’ 3-man experience. 

about your only chance to jump in there is with those scrimmage games in the spring, where everyone is really trying to bone up on their 2 man, or somehow sneaking into a fall ball situation maybe to help out with a 3 or even 4 man at some higher levels, or maybe even the higher levels in spring again also.

[JSam21]

I'm lucky enough to have a local college summer league that runs the 3 umpire system that plays 6 nights a week, most DH. So we are able to get a lot of 3 umpire system reps. I also work a college level in the spring that runs the 3 umpire system. 

The biggest issue that I have found going to the the 3 umpire system at the high school level is people not wanting to listen and/or make up their own mechanics when they don't really know how to run the system. I was explaining fly ball coverage keys recently and my U3 didn't understand why U1 would have trouble balls straight in from the CF when U3 was inside. Repeatedly, they kept saying, "I can see the ball skip into the glove from where I'd be!". My U1 is also another college level umpire with extensive 3 umpire system experience. I finally just opened up the manual and showed U3... "It says it right here. This is how it is ran. This is how we are running it."

[The Man in Blue]

@MadMax I absolutely agree with your statements … I use the line, “I don’t do it for the money, but I also don’t do it for the money.”

When I say a pay cut, I am not talking about splitting pay for two umpires three ways.  I also realize a little of the workload is coming off of me, so I’m ok with a small hit.  (That said, I still feel we should be paying the plate guy more than the bases.)

As for schools offering three-man, yeah, the other schools might have an issue with it, but it is no different than some school spaying better.  It is a selling point or incentive to get umpires to come work your games.

Never going to happen, but I’d like to see these summer tournaments go to three-man on their final/championship games.  So it costs them an extra $60 or so, but it gives them a selling point that other tournaments aren’t doing.  It also gives them a better look for the umpires they are contracting.  (Before COVID, I was lined up to UIC for a local complex, and I had the org leaders on-board for that.)

 

[MadMax]

10 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Never going to happen, but I’d like to see these summer tournaments go to three-man on their final/championship games.  So it costs them an extra $60 or so, but it gives them a selling point that other tournaments aren’t doing.

Never say never. 

Perfect Game does exactly this, in fact using 3-man on the semis, and 4 (or even 6!) on the chips. I can proudly say that Vultures are usually in those crews, and we treat them as “honing” games. One particular NCAA/NJCAA/AIA colleague gravitates towards U2, and I recognized why he does – he’s working out (practicing) the spatial sense to smoothly operate at U2, while putting his IP at either B-deep (which he’ll have to use for AIA) or C-beyond (which some MLBUs do). He got really good at it. 

KRBS (a regional Tournament Series) also does it, as the TD knows that that 3rd umpire is a considerable less headache on the game, when coaches (try) to pull all the shenanigans. 

Penny-pinching, miserly, Scrooge McDuck-led TSs… nope. You’re right, they’d go Solo umpires if they could get away with it. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:47 PM, MadMax said:

when LL expands to 6-man,

Hey, guess what!?!  There is no more 6 man!  😁