Dead ball award

[UmpAgain]

So I’ve been reading through the Ask the Umpire forum and have a question.  This is hypothetical, so I’m curious what different rule sets might say.  I understand the award, but my question is how to verbalize it as the umpire.  I seem to recall seeing a discussion in a very old threat; here goes:

R1, 1 out.  Batter hits deep fly ball, R1 off on contact.  Ball is caught when runner is well past 2nd.  F8 throws ball out of play (for argument sake, let’s say he flips into the stands)

I know the NFHS rule that going back and touching 1st at this point won’t negate the possibility of appeal in this situation.  Since the runner’s award from 1st would be 3rd base, if I award third base aren’t I tipping the defense that he left early (runner is still past second, let say)  Do I award home and if he goes back to first to tag, then change the award to 3rd?

Thanks!

[eddieq]

I’m a softball guy. We are taught to announce the award and let the runners complete their base running assignments which includes going back and retouching missed bases or bases left early. Once the runner touches their awarded base they are no longer able to go back and fix any base running mistakes. Once that is done, act on any appeals. 
Personally I like this mechanic. It doesn’t tip either side off. Offense and defense should know the rules and even if the runner doesn’t realize it, the coaches should direct them. If the defense doesn’t realize they can appeal the runner missing/leaving a base early, their coaches should direct them. 
If nobody knows then we just play on. 

[eddieq]

Also, in USA softball, it’s where the runner was at the time the throw was released. In your scenario that’s home but again they still have to retouch. Some codes include the base to be retouched in the award which, as you noted, leaves a clue. Still, as noted, they all need to know their jobs. 

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, UmpAgain said:

So I’ve been reading through the Ask the Umpire forum and have a question.  This is hypothetical, so I’m curious what different rule sets might say.  I understand the award, but my question is how to verbalize it as the umpire.  I seem to recall seeing a discussion in a very old threat; here goes:

R1, 1 out.  Batter hits deep fly ball, R1 off on contact.  Ball is caught when runner is well past 2nd.  F8 throws ball out of play (for argument sake, let’s say he flips into the stands)

I know the NFHS rule that going back and touching 1st at this point won’t negate the possibility of appeal in this situation.  Since the runner’s award from 1st would be 3rd base, if I award third base aren’t I tipping the defense that he left early (runner is still past second, let say)  Do I award home and if he goes back to first to tag, then change the award to 3rd?

Thanks!

You would revise the award to 3B in OBR and the retouch would be legal unless the runner went to 3B before returning. NFHS always awards TOP which is only relevant on when there is R1. The award would always be 3B:

"8-3-5-b............

When a runner, who is returning to touch a base after a batted ball has been caught is prevented from doing so because a thrown live ball has become dead (5-1-1g), the runner's award shall be from the base the runner occupied at the time of the pitch. In any situations other than (a) or (b), on a batted ball which is the first play by an infielder, all runners including the batter-runner are awarded two bases from their positions at the time of the pitch. For purposes of this rule, the act of fielding is not considered a play. If every runner, including the batter- runner, has advanced one base at the time of the first play, the award is two bases from the time of the throw. For any subsequent play by an infielder or for any throw by an outfielder, the award is two bases from the time of the throw."