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tossed a coach in a 10U travel game


mac266

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7 hours ago, blue23ll said:

I'm curious about the 'keep your hands behind your back' part of this. Why are you trained to do that? 

If a coach is in my face, I'm keeping my hands up and available. I won't push him but if he swings I can defend myself. 

My association is trained on this, too. The theory is there is less risk of inadvertently initiating physical contact with anyone if one's hands are behind one's back. It also gives a body language message of passivity.

~Dawg

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We were trained to keep both arms at the side and give at least 3 feet between us. Listen to him and then interject that the agreement in done and play ball. If the coach continues to argue and advance to us put the stop sign up. If he still argues and still advances toss the a$$hole. You have given him two chances to stop and head back to the bench. This is then ejection worthy and no TD should dispute it. If they do, I did my last game for them.


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"The coach had been yelling throughout the game at the plate umpire regarding balls and strikes, who had warned him several times, "We're not going to argue balls and strikes."

 

I think by now you see the actual problem. 

 

Now I work with a lot of Junior umpires, and I do my best to let them handle their own business as PU's. But as a BU you do have options. You can quietly tell the first base coach "This $#!+ needs to end now", and have him take that message back to the dugout with him. Or wander over to the dugout on a change over. "Skipper, I have no idea who's barking from in here, but it ends now" and walk away. 

 

 

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On 6/22/2021 at 11:41 AM, mac266 said:

Don't forget I'm a retired cop...this would have been 30 pages for a police report, so it is the trimmed down version :)

Ejection reports should be two to three sentences at MOST.  "The HC was ejected in the B3 because he continued to argue balls and strikes after being warned. He was bulling the young umpire behind the plate."  Everything else is irrelevant. 

Ive been there. My son umpired with me since he was 14, so I know where you are coming from on this. I have also worked with a lot of young guys and coaches feel they can bully them. I NEVER allow this to happen. In fact I will throw them out faster. So I applaud you on this.

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33 minutes ago, aaluck said:

Ejection reports should be two to three sentences at MOST.  "The HC was ejected in the B3 because continued to argue balls and strikes after being warned. He was bulling the young umpire behind the plate."  Everything else is irrelevant.

I learned this the hard way.  I came from the business world where every detail is important - includling the 'why' and how you felt about it.

Head of OHSAA advised me to keep it short next time. Just the facts, he did this, you warned him to stop, he did not, so you ejected him.  Very short and sweet.  

In my opinion, it feels way too short - but I'm learning from a legal perspective it makes way more sense to be brief.  If you didn't put it on paper, then it's hearsay.

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

learned this the hard way.  I came from the business world where every detail is important - includling the 'why' and how you felt about it.

Head of OHSAA advised me to keep it short next time. Just the facts, he did this, you warned him to stop, he did not, so you ejected him.  Very short and sweet.  

In my opinion, it feels way too short - but I'm learning from a legal perspective it makes way more sense to be brief.  If you didn't put it on paper, then it's hearsay.

@wolfe_man I've learned (and continue to relearn) that brief isn't only legally better it removes ambiguity. Counterintuitive I know. It's also harder (at least it is for me). 

This youtube has been helpful (the book is even better imo).

 

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On 8/13/2021 at 11:39 PM, blue23ll said:

I'm curious about the 'keep your hands behind your back' part of this. Why are you trained to do that? 

If a coach is in my face, I'm keeping my hands up and available. I won't push him but if he swings I can defend myself. 

They teach it because of perception.  What everyone on the field saw was me standing with my hands behind my back in position B.  When he charged out to confront me, I didn't meet him.  I simply stood there.  He was throwing his hands around and yelling.  So any witness (or video that winds up on YouTube) is going to show him acting like the overly-aggressive idiot, and the umpire calmly standing and trying to get the game going again.  

Yes, it goes against all my cop training, but as an umpire I don't have a duty belt with weapons to prevent him from taking, and him actually taking a swing at me is not only unlikely, but will definitely end up with him in handcuffs.  If anything looks like "mutual combat" (i.e. both people being idiots), then it won't.  But this approach always ensures the crowd's perception of the umpire as the one just doing his job and the coach acting the fool.

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3 hours ago, mac266 said:

But this approach always ensures the crowd's perception of the umpire as the one just doing his job and the coach acting the fool.

This, and so much of the thread, made me think of this that I watched last night 

 

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On 6/22/2021 at 10:19 AM, mac266 said:

Triple Crown tournament in Omaha this past weekend.  Here is a copy-and-paste of my ejection report, with some personally identifying information removed.

 
 
I was the base umpire and [my 14 year-old kid] was the plate umpire.  The coach had been yelling throughout the game at the plate umpire regarding balls and strikes, who had warned him several times, "We're not going to argue balls and strikes."  PU's strike zone was slightly expanded, as is common for the age group, and consistent throughout the game.  The head coach was near his dugout on the first base line, and therefore could not see if a pitch was inside, outside, or over the plate; all he could see was height. 
 
In the bottom on the third inning, when his team was pitching, there was a runner on 1st.  I was in Position B and could see the strike zone with only a slight offset angle.  The pitcher delivered a pitch that was approximately 18 inches outside, so much that the catcher had to dive to his side to make the catch.  Caleb called a ball, and the [team] head coach began jumping up and down and yelling at the plate umpire, "YOU'VE BEEN CALLING THAT A STRIKE ALL GAME!!!"  PU's slightly expanded strike zone never included anything that far outside.  The coach then started charging down the baseline towards the plate umpire while screaming at him. 
 
Charging towards an umpire is grounds for an immediate ejection, as is arguing balls and strikes.  However, in an attempt to avoid the ejection I interrupted him from Position B, "Coach, it was this far [while holding my hands up approximately 18 inches apart] outside."
 
The coach jumped into the air and spun towards me, yelling, "I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU!!!'  In my judgement, this was the third reason he should have been ejected. 
 
I made the ejection mechanic and said, "You're gone," while remaining stationary in Position B.  [Note to my fellow umpires:  Yes, this was the PU's argument but he was a 14 year-old kid being bullied by a fully grown adult, so I intervened]
 
The coach stormed out towards me and began arguing the ball / strike call again.  I told him, "Coach, you have to leave" while standing with both hands behind my back as I was trained.  He then asked me, "Is that how they do it in Colorado?"  I replied, "Yes, sir.  Now you have 30 seconds to leave before I end the game."  He stormed towards his dugout, but stopped, changed direction, and charged toward PU again.  He came to within a few feet of him and yelled, "I WAS NICE TO YOU YESTERDAY, BUT THIS IS F*#KING BULLSH*#!!!" 
 
He finally left.  However, several innings later, PU approached me and clarified that an ejected player or coach must leave the immediate vicinity of the field, which I confirmed.  He then told me the ejected coach was hanging out in the crowd on the first base side.  I looked and saw him standing there, giving instructions to other coaches through the fence.  Remaining in the field and speaking to him through the fence, I told him, "Coach, when you've been ejected, you have to leave the facility.  You have to at least go to the parking lot."  He replied, "You mean I have to leave?" to which I said, "Yes, sir.  Please go now before this gets any worse."  Without saying another word, he walked away and I did not see him for the remainder of the game. 
 
Side note:  Triple Crown does not suspend coaches after an ejection, so they show up the next game acting the same way.  When we went to get our paychecks, the staff was talking about the guy.  Apparently the following day his behavior was the same, and he was flipping the bird to the opposing team OF TEN YEAR-OLDS!!!!  For the life of me, I can't understand why the umpires didn't heave him over that.  
 

I only read "10U"...yep...it was justified. 

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