Foul off batters foot, as base umpire

[tjfairlie]

Question from a new guy…

OBR (Not sure if it matters)

I’m in C. Batted ball hits off the batter’s foot while in the box.

Plate umpire doesn’t see/call it.

After the play, OC asks the PU about it and the PU then asks if I saw it. I did, and told him so.

My question is, is that something that I should’ve called right away, or is that the plate umpires call and I should wait to see if asked?

[LRZ]

Part of my pre-game: call it if you see it and are sure.

[Recontra]

Another good reason to pre-game this is it often avoids conflict or protracted conversations. I prefer the PU and BU both call these instantly, who cares if both umpires call, "Time!" simulaneously?? BU isn't stepping on PU's toes--just like a balk. Also, Time! is the correct call for the BU, not Foul!. It's PU's job to determine if the dead ball is foul or whether the batter might be out. Then, if it allegedly happens again later in the game and neither umpire calls it, it's a quick conversation with the offensive HC:  "Sorry, but neither of us have a batted ball touching the batter." "Can you go check with your partner?"  "I don't need to. We pregamed this and you saw him call it earlier in the game, if he would have seen it, he would have called it right away."  Pretty much end of the conversation.

[Velho]

Related tangent...

Any mechanics advice on how to catch this? Saw this uncalled 4 times this year in my son's HS varsity games this year (3 of them for double plays or 3rd out with 2+ runners on base). Hey, it happens but makes me think of how to minimize the risk. Advice for the ump to get this right?

As a coach, I've always told the batter to sell it (not make it up, but sell it) especially if you're likely to be out anyway. Advice for the player/coach in this situation?

[Replacematt]

8 hours ago, Recontra said:

Another good reason to pre-game this is it often avoids conflict or protracted conversations. I prefer the PU and BU both call these instantly, who cares if both umpires call, "Time!" simulaneously?? BU isn't stepping on PU's toes--just like a balk. Also, Time! is the correct call for the BU, not Foul!. It's PU's job to determine if the dead ball is foul or whether the batter might be out. Then, if it allegedly happens again later in the game and neither umpire calls it, it's a quick conversation with the offensive HC:  "Sorry, but neither of us have a batted ball touching the batter." "Can you go check with your partner?"  "I don't need to. We pregamed this and you saw him call it earlier in the game, if he would have seen it, he would have called it right away."  Pretty much end of the conversation.

Here's why (and a new thing I pregame...)

Last year, on my plate, a batter chopped one near, but not off, the end of his foot; I could see clearly that it didn't hit him. My (extremely competent) partner killed it. Had he waited, he would have noticed that I was decisively officiating a ground ball, not thinking through a call/no-call.

Here's the new pregame that we've considered. Just like any other time where it looks like something has occurred but nothing has, the primary umpire giving an indication of such when they are sure there was no contact would then keep BU from taking this call incorrectly.

[SeeingEyeDog]

And let's please remember, if it looks like the ball might be fair? Please come up big here and call Time!

If the ball is off the batter while he is in the batter's box and the ball rolls clearly foul...it still needs to be killed, of course...but, less enthusiastically, please.

~Dawg

[Richvee]

5 hours ago, Velho said:

Related tangent...

Any mechanics advice on how to catch this? Saw this uncalled 4 times this year in my son's HS varsity games this year (3 of them for double plays or 3rd out with 2+ runners on base). Hey, it happens but makes me think of how to minimize the risk. Advice for the ump to get this right?

As a coach, I've always told the batter to sell it (not make it up, but sell it) especially if you're likely to be out anyway. Advice for the player/coach in this situation?

For umpires, it’s a tracking issue. If you’re tracking  the ball all the way in, you see the ball hit the bat, you see where the ball goes, and ( unless you get screened by F2) you see it hit his foot.

as for the batter... yes...sell it. If PU is in doubt and  BR sprints down the line, chances are you’re not getting the call. Hop up and down, grab that knee.....it helps. 

[noumpere]

9 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

And let's please remember, if it looks like the ball might be fair? Please come up big here and call Time!

If the ball is off the batter while he is in the batter's box and the ball rolls clearly foul...it still needs to be killed, of course...but, less enthusiastically, please.

~Dawg

IMO, this is a rule that could / should be changed -- the ball is still live when it hits off the batter and becomes fair or foul based on wheat else happens (just like any other batted ball).

 

Don't want to be an easy out because you can't run to first due to the pain?  Don't hit the ball off your foot.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

IMO, this is a rule that could / should be changed -- the ball is still live when it hits off the batter and becomes fair or foul based on wheat else happens (just like any other batted ball).

I follow the initial thought (and that we're just talking here) but if we think through all the possible outcomes is that still how we want to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nev9UXagys&t=4m3s

[SeeingEyeDog]

You guys go ahead and discuss the merits of this rule...

Imma' try and forget I've seen this PU back there with only a CP and mask...I'm sure he had a cup thought, right? @wolfe_man? He's wearing a cup back there, yes?

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

Really?  ALL the things wrong there and you are just going with "only a CP and a mask"?  😉

Obviously a HS baseball player that got tapped to ump the local league game for $20 so he put on his catcher's gear.  I was that kid.  Only I used the balloon.  Yeah, I used a balloon.  And I still have one.

As for the actual OP, I am with the folks here who believe in "see it call it."  A couple of years ago NCAA softball didn't want the BU making an immediate call.  The instruction was to wait until you knew the PU was not going to make the call.  I've not been to a clinic or any organized training since before COVID, so I'm not sure how they are handling it now.