Drop 2nd strike

[Guest Kyle]

Situation:   Runner on 3rd. 1 out.  Count on batter 1-1.  Strike 2. Catchers drop ball.  Batter thinks it’s strike 3 and runs to first.  Catcher throws to 1st and over throws first.  Runner in 3rd scores.   Ruling?  I have runner scoring and batter returns to bat with a 1-2 count.  Coach wants some sort of interference on batter for causing confusion on the play. I said defense needs to know the situation.   Only thing I can see penalizing the offense would be if the batter was doing it intentionally causing unsportsmanlike actions.  

[Replacematt]

44 minutes ago, Guest Kyle said:

Situation:   Runner on 3rd. 1 out.  Count on batter 1-1.  Strike 2. Catchers drop ball.  Batter thinks it’s strike 3 and runs to first.  Catcher throws to 1st and over throws first.  Runner in 3rd scores.   Ruling?  I have runner scoring and batter returns to bat with a 1-2 count.  Coach wants some sort of interference on batter for causing confusion on the play. I said defense needs to know the situation.   Only thing I can see penalizing the offense would be if the batter was doing it intentionally causing unsportsmanlike actions.  

You are correct.

[noumpere]

I this is any indication, your instincts will serve you well.

 

(But, don't rely on them alone)

[maven]

Can be avoided with a stronger strike TWO call.

[SH0102]

8 hours ago, Guest Kyle said:

Situation:   Runner on 3rd. 1 out.  Count on batter 1-1.  Strike 2. Catchers drop ball.  Batter thinks it’s strike 3 and runs to first.  Catcher throws to 1st and over throws first.  Runner in 3rd scores.   Ruling?  I have runner scoring and batter returns to bat with a 1-2 count.  Coach wants some sort of interference on batter for causing confusion on the play. I said defense needs to know the situation.   Only thing I can see penalizing the offense would be if the batter was doing it intentionally causing unsportsmanlike actions.  

My only question is what level was this?  If that was 12u Rec ball, I might do some kind of coaching as kid starts running “that’s only two batter”, but if it’s HS or above, or travel ball, kids are supposed to know the situation.

Ive been BU in a game with R1 and R2, kid fouled off like twenty pitches, still had a 2-2 count, ball is thrown he starts heading for first, so R1 and R2 went to their next bases.  HPU said several times “that’s only ball 3, come back”, but runners advanced.  But oh wait, when batter went back, so did they.

whole time I’m standing in C just wondering if anyone is going to make a play on these runners during this live ball, nope.  They advanced by mistake of offense and went back on their own mistake, they didn’t have to

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Can be avoided with a stronger strike TWO call.

Yup...this would have never happened to Dutch Rennert.

~Dawg

[maven]

I'll expand my remark for newer umpires.

Some guys seem to think that they're not allowed to say anything, or that they're somehow cheating or helping one team if they say anything. I disagree.

Let's assume that coach is not teaching this and that nobody's cheating: the batter just loses track of the count and takes off by mistake. Our job is communication: when I say "strike TWO...that's TWO!!" when the batter takes off, I'm communicating the call, so everyone can work from the same (if I'm lucky, correct) info.

This is not cheating: it's preventive umpiring. Nobody thinks the clown rodeo that ensues from this kind of mistake is good baseball—even the coach who benefits in the moment doesn't think it's good baseball, just a bounce that went his way.

So prevent the clown rodeo, prevent that needless throw, bring the batter back, and play on. Everyone will thank you (just kidding).

[ArchAngel72]

If its LL 8-10 yr olds 

 

I'm gonna blow it dead,  put everyone back and explain what happened to the batter.  To me those kids are there to learn to play and learn the rules.

10 -12 yr olds live ball .. what happens happens.

I had a similar thing happen on a ball 3 call in a game last year I reset them.  just because its 8 -10 yr olds.  trust me I know I am wrong on that too..

 

like I said 10-12 nope live ball 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Also, in games with COVID mechanics where umpires are not handling baseballs, inexperienced or poorly coached pitchers like to step off the rubber and throw the ball towards the dugout while asking coach for a new ball without requesting nor being given time...yes, that's a live ball and if coach misses it and it goes into the dugout with runners on, we're looking at baserunner awards. Also, runners could be in motion on the action of the pitcher stepping off and throwing in the ball.

For a random summer travel game (not a tournament, not a showcase, etc.) under these new fangled COVID mechanics, where we've all been off the field nearly six months...we now discuss this at the plate meeting and kill it if we see it, whether time is requested or not.

~Dawg

[ArchAngel72]

Hey Dawg  Since he stepped off is that not 2 bases?

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Yes, sir @ArchAngel72. Upon disengaging, the pitcher becomes a fielder and under NFHS, it's 2 bases from the time of the throw.

~Dawg

[mark38090]

I've seen this similar with 11/12 yo on d3k with R1 and R2 no outs. BR strikes out catcher misses ball, BR runs to first while the other runners advance. Catcher throws into right field so R2 scored R1 to 3rd, BR standing on 1st. When play stops I inform coach BR is out because first base was occupied with less than 2 out so he wants me to send all the runners back. 

[flyingron]

10 hours ago, mark38090 said:

he wants me to send all the rubbers back. 

Going to make it hard for the next pitch.

 

[mark38090]

13 hours ago, flyingron said:

Going to make it hard for the next pitch.

 

Improvise...