Pulled foot at 1st

[Shawn0331]

Situation:  No runners on. No outs.  BR hits ground ball to third.  I am PU.  I move up the line towards the runner's lane watching the play.  I observe the throw from third beat the runner but F3 pulled his foot.  U1 makes an out call.  (He could not see the pulled foot because of the angle and it was a very slight pull)  No one questions the call and everything moved on.  Because U1 did not ask for help and no coach from the offensive team or the BR for that matter made any protest I ended up just keeping that information to myself.  Was that wrong or should I have called U1 in for a conference and told him what I saw?  I have consulted on a pulled foot in the past (this is my first year umpiring) but the situation was different because U1 asked for help.  Thanks in advance

 

[Vegas_Ump]

It's the Field Ump's call.  You should offer NOTHING unless HE asks you.  (Not the coach or the manager either!)

I blow 'em as I sees 'em!

Mike

Las Vegas

[Thunderheads]

28 minutes ago, Shawn0331 said:

Situation:  No runners on. No outs.  BR hits ground ball to third.  I am PU.  I move up the line towards the runner's lane watching the play.  I observe the throw from third beat the runner but F3 pulled his foot.  U1 makes an out call.  (He could not see the pulled foot because of the angle and it was a very slight pull)  No one questions the call and everything moved on.  Because U1 did not ask for help and no coach from the offensive team or the BR for that matter made any protest I ended up just keeping that information to myself.  Was that wrong or should I have called U1 in for a conference and told him what I saw?  I have consulted on a pulled foot in the past (this is my first year umpiring) but the situation was different because U1 asked for help.  Thanks in advance

 

I agree w/ @Vegas_Ump ... Mike is correct ....

You did the right thing, you do nothing unless YOUR PARTNER ASKS ....

[Shawn0331]

Okay great that is good to hear! Or read...Thanks!

[LRZ]

If the BU felt, for whatever reason, he had a bad look or was blocked, he could have come to you immediately. He did not, so we can assume either (1) he felt comfortable with his call, or (2) he was not sure, "out" was his default call, and he would have welcomed a challenge so he could go to you.

I agree with Mike and Jeff, but I would add that there are ways to "invite" your partner to ask for your help. Some people pre-game a confidential signal to indicate, "Hey, I've got some information, if you ask." When a situation arises, you look at your partner to establish eye contact, so he can see your signal. If he does, he either acts on it or not--his call, his decision.

But if no one--a coach, player, your partner--challenges the call, maybe he got it right and you were mistaken.

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, Shawn0331 said:

Situation:  No runners on. No outs.  BR hits ground ball to third.  I am PU.  I move up the line towards the runner's lane watching the play.  I observe the throw from third beat the runner but F3 pulled his foot.  U1 makes an out call.  (He could not see the pulled foot because of the angle and it was a very slight pull)  No one questions the call and everything moved on.  Because U1 did not ask for help and no coach from the offensive team or the BR for that matter made any protest I ended up just keeping that information to myself.  Was that wrong or should I have called U1 in for a conference and told him what I saw?  I have consulted on a pulled foot in the past (this is my first year umpiring) but the situation was different because U1 asked for help.  Thanks in advance

 

As others have said, you don't offer anything on a partner's call unless they ask.

There are a handful of exceptions to this; as a first-year guy, I would suggest not worrying about those and stick to the above advice. Those situations can still be corrected by a partner asking for help. Once you get your umpire legs, then you can go deeper into the minutia.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

As others have said, you don't offer anything on a partner's call unless they ask.

There are a handful of exceptions to this; as a first-year guy, I would suggest not worrying about those and stick to the above advice. Those situations can still be corrected by a partner asking for help. Once you get your umpire legs, then you can go deeper into the minutia.

Agreed, and:

1) Coaches soon learn these "Secret signals" so they really aren't of much use

2) I wouldn't look to be overly technical on the pulled foot at the likely level you are working (an assumption I recognize I am making based on your experience).  Form the OP: " it was a very slight pull"  Outs are hard enough to come by; don't give them back.

[beerguy55]

Getting it "right" isn't the priority...managing and controlling expectations is more important.

If the offensive head coach, first base coach, and batter-runner didn't see a foot come off, with enough certainty to ask the ump for help, then all is well in the world.

[lawump]

And just to add my two cents: some day this will happen again only the head coach/manager will come running out directly to you (the plate umpire).  Your only reply must be, “you need to talk to my partner,” followed by (should the coach continue to talk to you) “skip, you need to talk to my partner about his call!” 

[ArchAngel72]

Unless the call is questioned by the coaches and/or an appeal is asked you do not offer your knowledge without the BU asking for your help. Then and only then do you relay it to the BU only and let him change the call based on your input.

 

I had a similar thing being in BU in C  R2 no outs, ground ball to F6  who fielded it and made a good throw.  From what I saw the throw beat the runner easily, however I suspected that F3 may have come off the bag a bit early but my angle from C I could not see his foot actually off the bag. It appeared still there.  I called the runner out.  There was no grumble or anything from the base coach or the dugout.  So I did not ask for assistance.  I went by what I saw and not a hunch that he lifted his heel.  

2 innings later I chatted with the PU at the mound between innings and just asked him if he saw it did he lift his heel.  He said yep I saw it kid was safe but what you gonna do.  He said I would have made the same call from C. 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

And please (and feel free to pregame this!)...when you get together on ANY call, do NOT say to your crew, "What have you got?" or "What did you see?". There is no surer path to rear-ends in a jackpot! 

Ask your crew a specific question about the play in question, "Coach says the fielder pulled his foot off the bag early. I have secured possession of the ball while in contact with the bag prior to the runner touching the bag. Did anyone see anything different?"

In the sample scenario, I am asking about the possibility of a pulled foot. I am not asking about a running line violation, swipe tag or anything else but the pulled foot. Respond to the pulled foot only.

~Dog