mr

[Guest steve]

runners on first and second..the pitcher spins towards second and as he does the runner on second base breaks towards third.  The pitcher continues to spin and throws to third before landing.  is this a balk. A balk is not immediately called and the play continues and they get the runner out in a rundown.  the opposing team complains that it was a balk and the umpire then calls a balk.

what should the call be?

[Richvee]

I'm having a hard time picturing "a spin to second and continuing to spin towards third" 

if he stepped to second with his free foot, then disengaged the rubber with his pivot foot, he can throw to 3rd. 

if he was clearly stepping to second, and with the free foot in the air, completely changed direction towards third, this is a balk.

if the runner takes off before the pitcher begins his motion, he may simply step to third to make a play on the runner. This would not be a throw to an unoccupied base. 

Again, I'm not 100% sure what your pitcher did, need a better  explanation to hazard a guess.  More than likely a HTBT situation. 

[beerguy55]

8 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I'm having a hard time picturing "a spin to second and continuing to spin towards third" 

if he stepped to second with his free foot, then disengaged the rubber with his pivot foot, he can throw to 3rd. 

if he was clearly stepping to second, and with the free foot in the air, completely changed direction towards third, this is a balk.

if the runner takes off before the pitcher begins his motion, he may simply step to third to make a play on the runner. This would not be a throw to an unoccupied base. 

Again, I'm not 100% sure what your pitcher did, need a better  explanation to hazard a guess.  More than likely a HTBT situation. 

Left-handed pitcher, I presume?  Kicks his right leg up, rotates around and is going to throw to second to pick off runner...notices the runner has left so continues his rotation as much as he can and throws to third?

[Richvee]

9 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Left-handed pitcher, I presume?  Kicks his right leg up, rotates around and is going to throw to second to pick off runner...notices the runner has left so continues his rotation as much as he can and throws to third?

I've got a dislocated kneecap. 

So if there was leg motion to 2B and it changed to third I've got a balk..change of direction.

41 minutes ago, Guest steve said:

 The pitcher continues to spin and throws to third before landing

. So LHP, lifts his leg and turns it 270 degrees before stepping...

[beerguy55]

21 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I've got a dislocated kneecap. 

So if there was leg motion to 2B and it changed to third I've got a balk..change of direction.

. So LHP, lifts his leg and turns it 270 degrees before stepping...

Or steps to second but throws to third?

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Or steps to second but throws to third?

Before disengaging....balk

[beerguy55]

7 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Before disengaging....balk

In either scenario we have a balk, accompanied by a dislocated knee or torn rotator cuff.

[BrianC14]

3 hours ago, Guest steve said:

runners on first and second..the pitcher spins towards second and as he does the runner on second base breaks towards third.  The pitcher continues to spin and throws to third before landing.  is this a balk. A balk is not immediately called and the play continues and they get the runner out in a rundown.  the opposing team complains that it was a balk and the umpire then calls a balk.

what should the call be?

I love this part....  

 

[ElkOil]

9 hours ago, Guest steve said:

runners on first and second..the pitcher spins towards second and as he does the runner on second base breaks towards third.  The pitcher continues to spin and throws to third before landing.  is this a balk. A balk is not immediately called and the play continues and they get the runner out in a rundown.  the opposing team complains that it was a balk and the umpire then calls a balk.

what should the call be?

You ask two -- what I presume -- are distinctly separate questions. One, you asked if this move was a balk, and the other you asked what the call should be after describing the hesitation until the coach brought it up.

You have plenty of answers on the balk call based on the mechanics you described from the pitcher. To your other question -- what the call should be -- it should be what the umpire thought it was. Sometimes balks happen extremely quickly and the umpire has to judge whether or not the move was legal. This can take a few seconds until it's replayed a few times in the mind of the umpire, especially if the balk isn't your plain vanilla type. Sometimes the umpire thinks, "Hey, was that a balk?" and then someone says something, and his thought process gets solidified and he calls the balk. It never looks good when it appears that an umpire's call is based on the complaints of a coach. But things like this have that appearance.

There's no harm in calling a balk late since the umpire will place runners wherever they should be. It may not look all that great, but it happens at every level of ball... even MLB.

[maven]

The rule requires a step and throw (or feint) directly toward a base. In theory, it is possible to start a spin toward 2B and to continue it legally toward 3B. This has happened twice in the history of baseball. The other 592 million times were illegal.

The umpire made a judgment call that the move was illegal. Without video or a much more elaborate description, it is difficult to assess that judgment call.

Odds are, he got it right. The timing of the call (after prompting by the offense) is moot: he might simply have been processing what he saw.

[Senor Azul]

In a move to second base all that is required by rule is a step toward the base—no throw, no arm motion—here’s the OBR rule:

6.02(3) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 6.02(a)(3) Comment [Rule 8.05(c) Comment]: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk. A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps. It is a balk if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher steps toward third and does not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. It is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base.

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 104):

“Any legal feint made toward second base requires that the pitcher step to second base before making his feint, or first properly disengage the back of the rubber. A feint to second base does not require an arm motion.

“Once the pitcher steps toward second base, he has fulfilled all of his requirements as a pitcher. He may then throw the ball to anywhere on the field without taking another step, except to another base. If he throws to another base, he must move his non-pivot foot a distance and direction from the position it landed in his initial step (though not necessarily directly to the base he throws to because he is now an infielder).”

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

In a move to second base all that is required by rule is a step toward the base—no throw, no arm motion—here’s the OBR rule:

6.02(3) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 6.02(a)(3) Comment [Rule 8.05(c) Comment]: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk. A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps. It is a balk if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher steps toward third and does not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. It is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base.

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 104):

“Any legal feint made toward second base requires that the pitcher step to second base before making his feint, or first properly disengage the back of the rubber. A feint to second base does not require an arm motion.

“Once the pitcher steps toward second base, he has fulfilled all of his requirements as a pitcher. He may then throw the ball to anywhere on the field without taking another step, except to another base. If he throws to another base, he must move his non-pivot foot a distance and direction from the position it landed in his initial step (though not necessarily directly to the base he throws to because he is now an infielder).”

 

If he has not stepped to 2B (free foot landed in that plus or minus direction) then his move was not a direct step to 3B. That is why the "wheel move" was prohibited before you couldn't feint to 3B.