base running

[Guest philsfan69]

Bases loaded, two outs bottom of the 9th. batter hits a ball that bounces past the right fielder. Runner from 3rd scores, runner from first never touches 2nd base before leaving the basepath. Defensive players begin leaving the field. Outfielder runs in and tags second base. What's the ruling?

The twist here is, this is an adult (and I use the term loosely) men's baseball league and immediately after the run scored, the second baseman from the defensive team pulled up the bag and tossed it into the outfield. It was returned to the general area of second base before the tag. Now what?

[ElkOil]

There is no ruling if the appeal isn't made clear to the umpire. A fielder merely stepping on a base on his way in from the outfield isn't a proper appeal.

The location of the physical base is irrelevant. 

[ricka56]

I'd say that if they retrieved 2B, put it back in place and tagged it, that would be an unmistakable appeal attempt. This valid appeal is a force third out, no run(s) can score. 

 

[noumpere]

I tend to agree with ricka56 that this was an unmistakable appeal (if it was not, then ElkOil is correct).  But, it was made by an outfielder (not a problem in and of itself), and there's no mention of the infielders.  If the infielders and the pitcher left fair territory, then it's too late to appeal.

[CJK]

I think there's also the possibility of ruling OBS against F4 for dislodging the base and awarding R1 the touch at 2B.

[LRZ]

3 minutes ago, noumpere said:

If the infielders and the pitcher left fair territory, then it's too late to appeal.

The OBR rule says "defensive team." 5.09(c). Is there an interpretation that defines this as infielders and pitcher for purposes of an appeal when the half-inning has ended?

[noumpere]

9 minutes ago, LRZ said:

The OBR rule says "defensive team." 5.09(c). Is there an interpretation that defines this as infielders and pitcher for purposes of an appeal when the half-inning has ended?

Right from the rule book: For the purpose of this rule, the
defensive team has “left the field” when the pitcher and all infielders
have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.

[LRZ]

Thanks. I overlooked that. I thought you were correct--something in the back of my mind--but looked too quickly. 

[Rich Ives]

12 hours ago, Guest philsfan69 said:

Bases loaded, two outs bottom of the 9th. batter hits a ball that bounces past the right fielder. Runner from 3rd scores, runner from first never touches 2nd base before leaving the basepath. Defensive players begin leaving the field. Outfielder runs in and tags second base. What's the ruling?

The twist here is, this is an adult (and I use the term loosely) men's baseball league and immediately after the run scored, the second baseman from the defensive team pulled up the bag and tossed it into the outfield. It was returned to the general area of second base before the tag. Now what?

The base that needs touching is the spot on the ground, not the bag marking the spot..  If R1 never went to the spot you have a straight force out - F9 unassisted.

 

APPROVED RULING: (B) If a base is dislodged from its
position during a play, any following runner on the same
play shall be considered as touching or occupying the
base if, in the umpire’s judgment, he touches or occupies
the point marked by the dislodged bag.

[maven]

30 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

The base that needs touching is the spot on the ground, not the bag marking the spot.

And the spot gets MUCH bigger than the bag when the defense intentionally removes the bag.

[Rich Ives]

3 minutes ago, maven said:

And the spot gets MUCH bigger than the bag when the defense intentionally removes the bag.

But not THAT big. The runner has to attempt to get close.

[CJK]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

But not THAT big. The runner has to attempt to get close.

I respect your opinion, Rich Ives, and understand what you're saying.  On the other hand, if your player uproots second base and chucks it into the outfield, I don't know how you could possibly come out to the umpire with a straight face and ask for missed base appeal.

I'd think the only serious question you'd have is how long that guy is going to be suspended from league play.

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, ricka56 said:

I'd say that if they retrieved 2B, put it back in place and tagged it, that would be an unmistakable appeal attempt. This valid appeal is a force third out, no run(s) can score. 

 

 

5 hours ago, noumpere said:

Right from the rule book: For the purpose of this rule, the
defensive team has “left the field” when the pitcher and all infielders
have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.

But is this an appeal, or just a plain old force play?

R1 never got to second base - he didn't "miss" the base (or the spot where the base should have been), he never arrived at it - he left the base path to go celebrate his apparent walk off win, presumably towards the batter who just touched first base.

 

This did happen a few years ago in the minors with R1 forgetting to touch second (not the base getting thrown away) before his celebration and he was forced out, and the game went to extra innings, where his team ended up losing.

[CJK]

I forgot that this also happened in MLB in 2015.  There was a Case Play over on Close Call, so the write-up includes a cited interp.

http://www.closecallsports.com/2015/08/case-play-2015-07-merkle-revisited.html

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, CJK said:

I forgot that this also happened in MLB in 2015.  There was a Case Play over on Close Call, so the write-up includes a cited interp.

http://www.closecallsports.com/2015/08/case-play-2015-07-merkle-revisited.html

I suspect this is still in the context of an appeal.

If it's a force play, I don't think the game's over until all players have touched/acquired the bases they're required to touch before any third out is recorded.

I still think this is just a plain force play, not an appeal.  Depending on exactly what happened with R1 - did he get to second base (or where it should have been)...or did he only get about half way to second before he decided to join in the game ending celebrations.   This doesn't sound like a missed base to me...it sounds like a guy who still hasn't reached second base yet.

 

Like this

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/merkle-blunder-baseball-famous-do-over-article-1.324872

 

I can't find video but this happened a few years ago in MiLB as well.