Will you take information from a player to change your call

[beerguy55]

Will you (or can you) accept information from a player, knowing that the player is not acting in their best interest, or that the information goes against their natural bias, to change a call you made.

I've actually seen umpires (in both baseball and softball), as high as 14U, asking a batter if the pitch hit them.  I've thought that inappropriate to put the batter in that situation.

But what if the batter had volunteered the information (this one might be dicey because it could be argued that the batter would rather hit than take a base - but let's say it was bases loaded and a tie game in the bottom of the last, and the batter says it didn't hit him).

I have wondered this since a situation I had in a tournament a few years ago, where the batter on the other team hit a ball over the fence, but it had initially been ruled a GRD.  I wasn't 100% sure myself but I thought it was a HR.  (Yellow ball, yellow(!!!) fencing.  Yeah, why would you want to make it easy for Blue)

 While the two umpires were conferring on what they saw, I went up the first baseline and waved my F9 over and asked if it was a HR and was told 'yes'.  I was about to tell her to go and tell the umpires (yes, I wanted the gesture to come from my player, not me - probably a bad idea in hindsight) - this was just a travel ball tournament and most of these kids have never hit a home run, and never will, I did not want to take one away...especially in a situation where you'd almost need to park an umpire on the fence so he can see properly - but they ruled it a HR on their own and it all worked out.  

Is there a point here where you can or will take input from a player, or coach, in a situation like this?

[LRZ]

No.

[maineump]

Not from a player or coach - just input from what I see, hear and if my partner has something

[Replacematt]

The only input I will take from players is immediate reactions...and I weigh those appropriately.

[Umpire in Chief]

No, not directly from a player and never from a coach.

For a HBP situation, if I'm not sure I'll give it a second and see how the player reacts and if it's instant. If he doesn't sell me on it, he wasn't hit. 

For other situations I may read their body language like on a tag.

A little while ago I had a Home Run situation where we only had about 10-12' foul poles, there was a bomb down the left field line it was so far above the pole I had no reference from about 50' up the third base line if it left in foul or fair territory. But the left fielder was able to sprint to the corner and had a great look at it. I had no clue. The ball landed 20+ feet foul, but it was a righty and hooking. I based my call on the body language of the left fielder. The way he dropped his head and shoulders told me it was a homer. And nobody argued. Now had he not done that, I probably would have still ruled HR, but only on a gut feeling. 

[scrounge]

Never. Ok, almost, almost never. I'd say I could count on 2 fingers how many times it's happened. But one of those 2 was just last week. A high inside pitch came in that was close to the brim of the batters helmet. I didn't hear it hit but I had that little guf feeling that if it didn't, it was SUPER close. The batter started trotting to 1B as I called him back, but my partner had a quizzical look too, so I went out and checked. He thought it did but wasn't sure enough to say definitively - when the pitcher, who was within earshot volunteered 'yea, I hit him'. It wasn't like he really didn't want to face the guy - it made 1st and 2nd with no one out. So...yea, after 'further consultation' with my partner, we ruled HBP. Oddly enough, the only person that questioned it was the OC.

[ricka56]

No sense, no feeling ... sometimes they don't even know that they've been hit.

[Guest Nick]

In the 10th inning of Game 4 of the 1957 World Series against the Milwaukee Braves, Yankee pitcher Byrne threw a low pitch to the Braves’ Nippy Jones, and the umpire called it a ball. But Jones contended that the baseball had struck his shoe, he convinced the umpire by displaying a scuff mark from shoe polish on the ball, and he was awarded first base. 

Personally, I think the only appropriate player input is when the umpire says, "show me the ball."

[Sut'n Blue]

A few years back I was PU with a much younger BU (maybe 18 years old). 12u playoff game with a grounder hit to f4 who attempts to tag R1. BU says no tag on R1 and calls R1 safe at second. Defensive coach asks for time and has a little back and forth with BU who sticks with his call. As defensive coach is unhappily heading back to his dugout the OHC who was also first base coach comes jogging up to me and quietly says "he got him on the tag." Having had some positive experiences with this guy I have no doubt he thought BU kicked it and in the sense of fair play wanted to see the call changed. I said thanks coach but we're burning daylight so let's move on. He nodded and went back to his position. No way was I going to let us go down that slippery slope. 

Post Script, kudos to the OHC for his idea of sportsmanship and for being aware of the situation he could be putting us in and so kept his comment to me discreet.

[ElkOil]

One time while PU, a ball hit what I thought was the knob of the bat and rolled away. I called foul, but the batter said that it hit him. He showed me his hand where there appeared the impression of ball stitching. I awarded him 1B.

[catsbackr]

10 hours ago, ElkOil said:

One time while PU, a ball hit what I thought was the knob of the bat and rolled away. I called foul, but the batter said that it hit him. He showed me his hand where there appeared the impression of ball stitching. I awarded him 1B.

In a situation like this, I will kill it, then wait for the batter's reaction, or lack of reaction.  That usually is a very good indicator.

[mrumpiresir]

No, in most situations.  There have been times when I was unsure if I had the correct count. I said loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear the count I had and if it was correct.  Sometimes they corrected me and sometimes they affirmed my count was correct.  This doesn't happen often but I can't think of a time when the batter and catcher disagreed.  So it worked for me.

[JohnnyFever]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:46 PM, ElkOil said:

One time while PU, a ball hit what I thought was the knob of the bat and rolled away. I called foul, but the batter said that it hit him. He showed me his hand where there appeared the impression of ball stitching. I awarded him 1B.

This exact same thing happened to me in a 18u wood bat tournament. I was positive that I heard the sound of the ball hitting the knob of the bat. I called a foul ball and the batter took off his batting glove and showed me the giant red mark on his wrist bone. I awarded him first base. 

Knowing that the sound I heard was ball hitting bone instead of wood almost makes me sick to my stomach. That's gonna leave a mark. 

[Donny7]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, Umpire in Chief said:

For a HBP situation, if I'm not sure I'll give it a second and see how the player reacts and if it's instant. If he doesn't sell me on it, he wasn't hit. 

For other situations I may read their body language like on a tag.

Warren pretty much describes where I'm at with say, 13U thru JUCO. Below that I take it on a player by player basis, cause it can get extremely varied and subjective... but, what I have experienced is that 12U and younger are a majority of the time, very honest when the event first occurs. I'm saying that if I haven't already made up my mind, am unsure, and it is a one of those type calls that I and my partner could use a little input on, then... maybe.   But Only Once In A Blue Moon does that circumstance present itself.