2017 NFHS Baseball Exam Discussion

[johnnyg08]

All questions/discussions regarding the 2017 NFHS Baseball Exam will take place in this thread. 

To my knowledge the exam has been posted in several spots. 

 

 

[VolUmp]

I've already taken and passed the exam ... which in my case, is named "2016 Exam" ... and that has been the pattern for three straight years. 

I understand that the current school year is the 2016/2017 school year, but since baseball falls entirely within 2017, there's no reason for FED to erroneously name the exam.

Still has poorly worded questions, still has questions with either two or zero correct answers, still has questions with key words omitted that completely confuse the reader ... there is no excuse. They are educators with virtually no accountability. 

[UMP45]

49 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I've already taken and passed the exam ... which in my case, is named "2016 Exam" ... and that has been the pattern for three straight years. 

I understand that the current school year is the 2016/2017 school year, but since baseball falls entirely within 2017, there's no reason for FED to erroneously name the exam.

Still has poorly worded questions, still has questions with either two or zero correct answers, still has questions with key words omitted that completely confuse the reader ... there is no excuse. They are educators with virtually no accountability. 

Who said they're educators?

[Kevin_K]

35 minutes ago, UMP45 said:

Who said they're educators?

@VolUmp did.  It must be true. I read it on the Internet.

[VolUmp]

45 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

@VolUmp did.  It must be true. I read it on the Internet.

Yep.  And I'm a French model. 

"Bone Jurr!"

[maven]

2 hours ago, UMP45 said:

Who said they're educators?

As officials of various state athletic administration systems, they generally come up through schools as teachers, coaches, and AD's. For me, that's sufficient to qualify as an educator.

You can Google the members of the NFHS baseball committee if you like.

[Stk004]

1 hour ago, VolUmp said:

Yep.  And I'm a French model. 

"Bone Jurr!"

[VolUmp]

And these "Educators" think their runner designations make more sense than the standard runner designations we all use.

Maybe they all graduated from alternative schools. I previously posted that the Lead Editor stated in an email reply to my offer to overhaul the FED Casebook (primarily to have their runner designations conform to the rest of the baseball world) that they are "Not interested in changing their runner designations" despite what Lawump claims to have been told.

[udbrky]

I'm pretty sure @lawump is self taught from pre-school thru law school.

[MooseLoop]

Perhaps the test is designed to test our ability to make a decision in ambiguous confusing circumstances with incomplete information.

[Richvee]

Two incomplete questions on my NJ test. Two pitching questions, neither indicate if F1 is in the set or windup.

F1 may feint or throw to an unoccupied base in an attempt to retire a runner.

a.

Correct

b.

Incorrect

With Runner on second base and a 1-1 count on B1, Runner breaks for third base before the pitcher starts his delivery. F1, without stepping off the rubber throws to third base. F5 tags Runner out. The umpire should rule:

a.

Rule Runner out. It is legal to throw to an unoccupied base in an attempt to retire a runner.

b.

Call a balk. It is not legal to throw to an unoccupied base.

Given the two choices in the second question, it's obvious "B" is wrong. 

Still, can we get all the info in the question please???

[maven]

The first question is asking whether it is ever legal to throw to an unoccupied base. I agree that it might have been worded more clearly: it does not even say F1 is engaged, not to mention the position.

The second question would be improved by mentioning whether F1 steps ahead of his throw. I've seen that move without a step.

[VolUmp]

9 hours ago, MooseLoop said:

Perhaps the test is designed to test our ability to make a decision in ambiguous confusing circumstances with incomplete information.

I really hope you're joking.

[VolUmp]

3 hours ago, maven said:

The second question would be improved by mentioning whether F1 steps ahead of his throw. I've seen that move without a step.

Richvee's examples are good ones that make your prior points, Maven.  If 30 sets of eyes looked at these questions before they went to a final editor, one would hope that 15 of them would point out that some info is lacking.  Also in FED, from the windup you can never throw to a base without first disengaging, so question two has "two" giveaways despite the poor wording.

[Richvee]

That first question was #1 on my test. I open the test, read question one, and immediately I'm laughing.."here we go..From the set? from the windup? while on the rubber? with or without a step?"   

[Kevin_K]

Don't read into the question! Answer the question that is being asked!

#1  F1 may feint or throw to an unoccupied base in an attempt to retire a runner. This is correct. F1 can. 

#2  With Runner on second base and a 1-1 count on B1, Runner breaks for third base before the pitcher starts his delivery. F1, without stepping off the rubber throws to third base. F5 tags Runner out. The umpire should rule: Runner out because it is legal to throw to an unoccupied base to retire a runner.

I hate the NJ test. It consistently stupefies me how poorly it rates in comparison to the NJ softball test and every other baseball test under the sun. 

[Richvee]

5 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Don't read into the question! Answer the question that is being asked!

 

I get it. The answers are easy. It just bothers me how wrong the questions are!

[johnnyg08]

Fellas, what are your thoughts on this one?  

Jones, advancing from first to third, fails to touch second base and is standing on third when the throw from the outfield goes into the dugout.

A. The umpire is to immediately declare Jones out for missing second base.

B. Because Jones missed second base, he cannot be awarded home from the errant throw to the dugout.

C. If Jones attempts to return to second base, the defense cannot appeal his missing second until Jones has completed his opportunity to correct the mistake.

D. Jones cannot legally return to his missed base and is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

[noumpere]

D.

 

C is close, but I don't think that's what they want.  (Because Jones is already on third, he has "completed his opportunity to correct the mistake" but the defense still cannot appeal until the award is finished.)

[johnnyg08]

Wendelstedt has this case play:

R1, one out, no count.  The batter knocks a base hit to right field and R1 misses second base on his way to third.  The throw into third is errant and goes out of play

(a) just before R1 reaches third base.

(b) just after R1 reaches third base.  R1 is awarded to score and the BR is awarded third base.  Before continuing to the plate, R1, how standing on third base, retreats back to second and touches it. Both runners then continue to their awards.  When a new ball is put back in play, the defense throws the ball to second to appeal R1 missing it.

Ruling:  In (a) R1is out and his run does not count.  In (b), R1 is safe.

Isn't this question virtually identical to the example in (b)? 

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, johnnyg08 said:

Isn't this question virtually identical to the example in (b)? 

Yes, it is.  And Wendelstadt gives the correct answer for OBR.  You asked about FED (or at lest asked a question in a FED thread that led to that assumption)

[johnnyg08]

1 minute ago, noumpere said:

Yes, it is.  And Wendelstadt gives the correct answer for OBR.  You asked about FED (or at lest asked a question in a FED thread that led to that assumption)

Yes, just verifying that there is indeed a difference between OBR and FED...a significant difference I might add.

[johnnyg08]

FED states:

ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

PENALTY (Art. 1 through 5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpire(s) leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Yes, just verifying that there is indeed a difference between OBR and FED...a significant difference I might add.

No news to anyone who has been on an internet board for more than a few months, I would expect -- the topic of when a runner can return comes up pretty frequently.

[refump10]

Just finished the test last night.  Followed my normal practice of cracking open a beer when reading the first question. Three beers and about an hour later, it's all done!  I have found a little lubrication is just the thing to get through it