Bases loaded

[Guest Tommyd21]

If you walk the bases loaded and the next hitter hits a fly ball to right field that is dropped for an error by the right fielder. Two runs score, are those runs scored earned or unearned?

[Rich Ives]

16 minutes ago, Guest Tommyd21 said:

If you walk the bases loaded and the next hitter hits a fly ball to right field that is dropped for an error by the right fielder. Two runs score, are those runs scored earned or unearned?

Less than two outs = earned

Two outs = unearned.

[Guest baseball]

Two outs, unearned.

Less than two outs, depends on what happens afterwards.  If the next two batters each hit singles and the runs would have scored anyway had the catch been made by the fielder on the original play, they are earned.  You have to reconstruct the inning assuming the error had not been made.  Likewise, in the OP, two runs score on the error, still two runners original R1 and BR who reached on error, and the next batter hits a three run home run, there are 5 earned runs in the inning, assuming the side is retired thereafer.   

 

[beerguy55]

It depends on how the rest of the inning plays out....and you don't tabulate earned/unearned runs until the inning is over.  It also depends on whether or not there's a pitching change.

If there was none or one out in your scenario, and the next guy hit a home run, those two runs would be earned, the run for the guy who got on base by error would be unearned, and then the hitter's run would be earned.

If there are two out, any runs that score on an error committed after the second out are unearned, including any runs that score with subsequent batters until the third out is recorded.  In fact, any error that extends an inning beyond three out (even if it's the leadoff batter) results in all runs scored after the second out being unearned.

The exception is during a pitching change...if, for example, there were two out, then batter reaches on error, and next batter hits home run.  Pitcher is charged with two unearned runs.  If he stays in the inning, any other runs he allows are unearned.  But, if the team makes a pitching change, the next pitcher starts fresh and is responsible for any runs he allows, and if they occur error-free they will be earned.  They are, however, still recorded as unearned for the team stats.  

 

 

 

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

The exception is during a pitching change...if, for example, there were two out, then batter reaches on error, and next batter hits home run.  Pitcher is charged with two unearned runs.  If he stays in the inning, any other runs he allows are unearned.  But, if the team makes a pitching change, the next pitcher starts fresh and is responsible for any runs he allows, and if they occur error-free they will be earned.  They are, however, still recorded as unearned for the team stats.  

I don't even know where to begin to refute this.

[Richvee]

3 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I don't even know where to begin to refute this.

umm....he's right

(i) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the relief pitcher
shall not have the benefit of previous chances for outs not
accepted in determining earned runs.
Rule 9.16(i) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 9.16(i) (Rule
10.16(i)) to charge a relief pitcher with earned runs for which
such relief pitcher is solely responsible. In some instances,
runs charged as earned against the relief pitcher can be charged
as unearned against the team.

[VolUmp]

4 minutes ago, Richvee said:

umm....he's right

(i) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the relief pitcher
shall not have the benefit of previous chances for outs not
accepted in determining earned runs.
Rule 9.16(i) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 9.16(i) (Rule
10.16(i)) to charge a relief pitcher with earned runs for which
such relief pitcher is solely responsible. In some instances,
runs charged as earned against the relief pitcher can be charged
as unearned against the team.

Nowhere does he mention that runners left on base by the departing pitchers are charged as earned runs to the departed pitcher should they later score without errors.

[Richvee]

3 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Nowhere does he mention that runners left on base by the departing pitchers are charged as earned runs to the departed pitcher should they later score without errors.

correct. Nowhere is that mentioned because it's not true. @beerguy55 didn't say that and neither does the rule.

[VolUmp]

2 minutes ago, Richvee said:

correct. Nowhere is that mentioned because it's not true. @beerguy55 didn't say that and neither does the rule.

OK. Misunderstood. My apologies.

[ALStripes17]

OK. Misunderstood. My apologies.

Thats probably why you didn't know where to begin to refute it

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, VolUmp said:

OK. Misunderstood. My apologies.

I can see where I messed up my wording.  I answered the question but then mentioned pitching changes, which in my mind I was thinking more about the general scorekeeping process, rather than it applying in this exact scenario.  I kind of got ahead of myself and screwed up the context.   

There is no scenario where a pitching change influences earned or unearned runs for inherited baserunners.

[catsbackr]

This concerns umpires...how?

[MadMax]

38 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

This concerns umpires...how?

Possible talking point or conversation starter for the book-keeper / scorer sitting behind the backstop, who might be a lovely person and a welcome (if brief) departure from having to watch umpire 13-year olds butcher attempt to play baseball.

[beerguy55]

57 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

This concerns umpires...how?

Well, maybe it should have gone under the "Rules" board instead of here, but I don't see how it would be a bad thing for an umpire to know the intricacies of score keeping, though I can see how they already have a lot on their plate.

I wish all players and coaches knew the nuances of both umpiring and score keeping.

To the question in general - perhaps the poster was unable to find a ScoreKeeper-Empire message board...