Another strange play, score discrepency, catfight.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

15u tournament, OBR, I am on the plate.  1 out, bases loaded.  Batter hits sharp ground ball to F6, should have been routine, inning-ending DP, but F6 has trouble getting ball out of his glove, and his flip to F4 gets there after F4 has touched and stepped past the bag.  U2 signals SAFE and says "SAFE, he's off the bag".  F4 throws to 1st, batter-runner is OUT by half a step (out #2).  Meanwhile, R3 has crossed the plate and R2 has taken a big turn at 3rd.  R1 gets up from his slide and sees U2 signal the OUT at 1st...apparently believing HE was called out, he starts walking toward 3rd base...more accurately, walking toward 3rd base dugout.  F3, still holding the ball, runs straight at R2 who retreats to 3rd.  3rd base coach is SCREAMING at R1 "you were SAFE, get back to 2nd."

R1 heads back to 2nd, and proceeds to get in a VERY sloppy pickle, while R2 dances back and forth between 3rd and home. F5 finally slaps a tag on R1 (while R2 is still about 3 steps away from the plate)..this SHOULD have ended the inning, but the ball comes out of F5's glove and goes rolling toward LF.  R2 crosses the plate.  F7 picks up the ball and throws to F1 who is covering 3rd...R1 is OUT...the 3rd out.

3rd base coach approaches me. Anticipating his question I say "Yes, Skip...BOTH runs are good."  Between innings I went to the other dugout to be sure THEY had the score correct.  Initially the defensive teams coach didn't think either run should score, but slowly he came to understand and agree that the 1st run was good, but he continued to question the 2nd run on the grounds that the initial tag on R1 was before R2 crossed the plate.  "No, coach.  That 'initial tag' was NOTHING, because the ball wasn't secured...and by the time there WAS an actual tag the runner has crossed."

***NOTE***there is NO scoreboard in operation on this field.

Two innings later, the game is interrupted by shouts, screams and a whole lot of commotion from behind the backstop. The two team's scorekeepers are in a violent rage, both being restrained by other parents.  The language and behavior, especially among the women involved was WAY over the top...it required the field coordinator, two guys from the grounds crew and an off-duty sheriff's deputy to get it all under control.  There were never any problems on the field, all the boys were just staring in disbelief, and both team's coaches were calmly standing near me, plainly embarrassed.

One team's book showed the score 7-6, the other showed 6-6.  I asked both coaches to get their books, and it didn't take more than a few minutes to see where the discrepancy was.  Both coaches agreed that the score was actually 8-6, altho the coach that was trailing was still grumbling about that 2nd run.  The coaches took their scorebooks back to their respective dugouts, effective relieving the "ladies" of their scorekeeping duties.  The game went on without any further issues, final score was 10-6.

The next afternoon while we had just finished the last pool game with two different teams, we heard sirens and saw flashing lights coming from the parking lot, which was quite some distance away.  We had no idea what was going on till later.  It seems that the team that lost that game 10-6 yesterday had, by virtue of 'runs-allowed' tie-breaker, missed qualifying for the bracket round by ONE run!  The "ladies" got in a genuine hair-pulling, eye-gouging catfight, and both ended up in handcuffs. 

 

[Richvee]

[Radwaste50]

Quote

Crazy from the heat 

 

[Mussgrass]

You can't make this stuff up! Wow!

[maven]

Give the moms a couple bats and let 'em sort each other.

[stkjock]

[grozzly]

As i often say to young umpires, youth baseball is the best field to learn, everything can happen ! 

[Rich Ives]

In my experience the Moms are more likely to be the PITA at the park.

[udbrky]

Wow.

 

I've always used the mechanic in that situation to give the # of runs scored to both dugouts, and if there is a scoreboard operator in the tower, to give it to that person as well. I make it very clear how many runs scored at the point when the last out is recorded on such a play.

For example, if the tag is secured originally, I would say:
 

"First run scores, second one does not!" to all 3 (or 2).

[MadMax]

On July 27, 2016 at 10:13 AM, stkjock said:

Hey, that's my home away from home!

Scary thought – these two ladies are potentially coaches of their daughters' softball teams.

Scarier thought – either one or both are treasurers / accountants of the team/community financials, and have to write checks to umpires.

6-6 indeed. Hoofah.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 2:49 PM, udbrky said:

Wow.

 

I've always used the mechanic in that situation to give the # of runs scored to both dugouts, and if there is a scoreboard operator in the tower, to give it to that person as well. I make it very clear how many runs scored at the point when the last out is recorded on such a play.

For example, if the tag is secured originally, I would say:
 

"First run scores, second one does not!" to all 3 (or 2).

I did just that, informed BOTH coaches (there was NO scoreboard in operation).  It never occurred to me that the coaches would fail to communicate the correct score to their respective bookkeepers.

[The Flush]

This year I was promoted from coach to scorekeeper.  Thanks to UE, I have better learned the rules about when runs count, the mechanics umps use to signal which runs count, and I always ask the ump if I miss his signals and then verify with opposing scorekeeper each inning. I don't know what I would do if the opposing scorekeeper disagreed vehemently (and was the home team). I guess the debate would be had immediately instead of 2 innings later.

[Rich Ives]

On 7/28/2016 at 2:49 PM, udbrky said:

 

For example, if the tag is secured originally, I would say:

He's out. He's out. - loudly.

[udbrky]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

He's out. He's out. - loudly.

My partner would...

 

I'm talking about making sure everyone knows how many runs count. This is after my partner has made the out call.

 

so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

[Rich Ives]

Just now, udbrky said:

My partner would...

 

I'm talking about making sure everyone knows how many runs count. This is after my partner has made the out call.

 

so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

Do you have folks that think a  runner can score after being called out?  The out call should be sufficient.

[udbrky]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

Do you have folks that think a  runner can score after being called out?  The out call should be sufficient.

Dude, we're not even on the same page. On a timing call to end the inning, I will explain which runs score, so if R3 scores, R2 has not scored before BR is tagged out, that is what I will say.

 

I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

[Rich Ives]

5 minutes ago, udbrky said:

Dude, we're not even on the same page. On a timing call to end the inning, I will explain which runs score, so if R3 scores, R2 has not scored before BR is tagged out, that is what I will say.

 

I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

The play where R2 was (or wasn't) tagged.

[udbrky]

Re-read what I'm saying. 

 

On a timing call, unless you're working solo, then you would NEVER have the call on a tag and whether the run scores. I said that my partner would be making the call on whether the player was out, while I am deciding which runners scored first.

 

Then, I loudly announce and empthatically show score, exactly what runs score. I do it from near HP, so that all hear it.

 

You're not even talking about the same thing here, so I don't know why you're telling me I should be calling the guy out. Can you show your work?