It's this high

[Jordxn]

Hi all I had an ejection occur last night I'm wondering what you think I could've done to get the batter to stop talking & making gestures and just get him to go back into the dugout to keep him in the game

2 curve balls that start high then drop in the zone.

The first one batter says something about it but I just ignore him. Second one is strike 3 he puts his hand near his forehead standing in the box and says "they're up here" I told him to end it and he kept going with comments about it so I said that's enough and he still kept arguing the call so I ejected him at that point. 

 

Normally I would've made the ejection for making the hand motion at his forehead but they only had 9 players and it was high school ball so I wanted to try and keep him in as much as I could

[ricka56]

Normally I would've made the ejection for making the hand motion at his forehead but they only had 9 players and it was high school ball so I wanted to try and keep him in as much as I could

I have also let things go because EJ would put a team below 9...every time I've regretted it. If the game has to end early because of team in below 8...that's not our problem. 

If a stern "KNOCK IT OFF" doesn't have an immediate effect, they need to go.

[Forest Ump]

I have also let things go because EJ would put a team below 9...every time I've regretted it. If the game has to end early because of team in below 8...that's not our problem. 

If a stern "KNOCK IT OFF" doesn't have an immediate effect, they need to go.

Agreed. +1

[grayhawk]

They can finish with 8 players anyway.

[ElkOil]

My goal, too, is to keep people in the game.  But there are some lines you can't cross without moving it unless you EJ.  You cannot argue balls and strikes, and since you warned him and he persisted, I'd say this isn't on you -- it's all him.  He made his bed.

Having said that, these are always good opportunities for me to get a little introspective and maybe ask my partner about my zone.  Hopefully, I don't give anyone a reason to argue balls and strikes.  Honestly, one of the biggest changes I've had to make is to realize the zone isn't as high as I always thought it was.  Since I changed, there's a lot less griping.

[Jordxn]

They can finish with 8 players anyway.

I should've included this in my first post; where I am High School ball is OBR modified with Canadian Content + 1ball 1strike starting count, not FED. Once there's less than 9 players game's over

Edited September 27, 2015 by Jordxn

[Replacematt]

If your goal is to keep people in the game, you're doing it wrong. You cannot control what they do. You can influence, you can guide, but you cannot keep someone in the game. At best, you can let them know that they are about to end their day.

[Platejob29]

I think you handled it well once he started gesturing but the one thing I do think you could improve on is responding to him the first time he had a grip about the zone. When he makes a comment about a called strike address it. This usually is enough to at least let the player know he is on thin ice so when it does lead to an ejection it will strengthen your report that much more. It also acts as a way out for the player because now he's heard your say and he knows you have the pitch in the zone and it's going to be called there so if he doesn't want it to be called on him he better swing the bat. 

[ScubaUmp]

After the first pitch comment, I would have stated clearly and loudly, 'ALL DAY (night) Long!!!!"

 

Did this at an adult league game,  inside rail right above the belly button, "STRIKE", he turned WHAT!!!, I responded "ALL DAY LONG!!!!" next pitch same location, "STRIKE"

His entire dugout in unison "ALL DAY LONG!!!"  not a word from anybody the rest of the game. Been doing it ever since.

 

[catsbackr]

After the first pitch comment, I would have stated clearly and loudly, 'ALL DAY (night) Long!!!!"

 

Did this at an adult league game,  inside rail right above the belly button, "STRIKE", he turned WHAT!!!, I responded "ALL DAY LONG!!!!" next pitch same location, "STRIKE"

His entire dugout in unison "ALL DAY LONG!!!"  not a word from anybody the rest of the game. Been doing it ever since.

 

Not to be critical, but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't fly in most of my games.  I'm thinking a well directed "Knock it off!" might be better.  Just saying...

[jjb]

On several occasions, (you can play with 8 here), I've told a player "Look, you've got 8, you can't play with 7: you go, everyone goes. Give it some thought before you keep talking". Seems to work.

[Platejob29]

Not to be critical, but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't fly in most of my games.  I'm thinking a well directed "Knock it off!" might be better.  Just saying...

Not criticizing just curious. Why is it that you feel you couldn't use the verbiage of "all day long" in the games you're working?

[catsbackr]

I'm pretty sure, after a batter I had just called out on strikes, turned and indicated where he thought the pitch was and verbalized his opinion, too, that the statement, "Knock it off" would be much more appropriate than, "All night long."  The former is more expected and the latter sounds more argumentative or designed to inspire a confrontation.  Also, if I say "All night long", I'm fairly certain I could expect a visit from the manager or head coach.  That statement sounds like we're trying to show up their player to me and if the player said that to us, they would probably get dumped.

 

Either way, if the player says anything else after my "Knock it off", he's probably gone.

[stkjock]

Cats - what level are you referencing?

[ScubaUmp]

Jordxn, 

As umpires we have more things to deal with than just ball/strike, fair/foul, safe/ out, etc....

Those 'things' all fall under "Game Management".

Lot's of situations here and you will need a lot of different tools. Knock it off, that's enough, that'll be enough, don't do that, all of these and too many more to list are great tools that myself and others use to deescalate and sometimes serve as warnings.

Game management includes knowing where you are and for whom you are working. We have all heard "When in Rome", so work with your local veterans and find out what works best for your area, don't be afraid to try new things to keep everyone in the game. 

Ignore, acknowledge, respond, warn, eject, is the process to follow. However, sometimes the situation and depending on the league, skipping steps is warranted and expected by your evaluator . MC and an unsportsmanlike display regarding balls and strikes are two that come to mind, NOT wearing jewelry, don't be that guy. 

 

Work hard, hustle, be consistent, fill your tool box.

 

 

[catsbackr]

Cats - what level are you referencing?

HS and up.

[JaxRolo]

If they have to go eject! Period!

 

[PonyUmpire]

HS age kids don't really get much rope with me on BS.  I'll often go with a "be quiet!", followed by a "go sit down!" if need be (if it's strike three).  I usually reserve "that's enough" for coaches, although I'm not really a fan of game-management-by-script.  How high were these curves exactly?  Maybe the player had a beef.  Did you talk to your partner about the zone in your post-game?     

[Jordxn]

HS age kids don't really get much rope with me on BS.  I'll often go with a "be quiet!", followed by a "go sit down!" if need be (if it's strike three).  I usually reserve "that's enough" for coaches, although I'm not really a fan of game-management-by-script.  How high were these curves exactly?  Maybe the player had a beef.  Did you talk to your partner about the zone in your post-game?     

The curves were about shoulder high coming in then dropped to the top of the zone. On both pitches the batter would duck down and when he ducked, the ball would go by his face so I have no idea if that's what he was referencing or the initial curve 

[scrounge]

The curves were about shoulder high coming in then dropped to the top of the zone. On both pitches the batter would duck down and when he ducked, the ball would go by his face so I have no idea if that's what he was referencing or the initial curve 

Hmm....unless that ball was a high arcing slo-pitch softball kind of pitch, I'm having a hard time believing that it could really have a trajectory that was shoulder high at the front of the plate but make it to the top of the zone by the time it gets to the rear of the plate. Are you sure that you weren't calling the catcher's glove? Slow arcing balls may very well be caught - well behind the plate - at the top of the zone, but they were well high while going thru the zone.

[Jordxn]

Hmm....unless that ball was a high arcing slo-pitch softball kind of pitch, I'm having a hard time believing that it could really have a trajectory that was shoulder high at the front of the plate but make it to the top of the zone by the time it gets to the rear of the plate. Are you sure that you weren't calling the catcher's glove? Slow arcing balls may very well be caught - well behind the plate - at the top of the zone, but they were well high while going thru the zone.

The way he was leaning in to the plate made the pitch about his shoulders. If he stood up I'd guess it would be right around the top of the letters. The catcher didn't catch the first one... so I don't think I was calling the glove.

Edit; Also the pitch wasn't shoulder @ the front of the plate. It was shoulder leaving the pitchers hand

Edited September 30, 2015 by Jordxn
correction

[catsbackr]

I don't care where the pitches were, you don't take that kind of reaction and comment from a HS kid.

 

Also, @PonyUmpire, be careful on the "be quiet" and the "go sit down" comments.  "Knock it off" says the same thing but doesn't sound quite so condescending.

[Cajunyankee]

On 9/30/2015 at 6:43 AM, Jordxn said:

The way he was leaning in to the plate made the pitch about his shoulders. If he stood up I'd guess it would be right around the top of the letters. The catcher didn't catch the first one... so I don't think I was calling the glove.

Edit; Also the pitch wasn't shoulder @ the front of the plate. It was shoulder leaving the pitchers hand

A curveball that would have been at the TOP of the letters that the catcher didn't catch was called a strike and the batter didn't like it.....can't imagine why....

[maven]

13 minutes ago, Cajunyankee said:

A curveball that would have been at the TOP of the letters that the catcher didn't catch was called a strike and the batter didn't like it.....can't imagine why....

You revived a 6-month-old thread just to add that?

[Cajunyankee]

On 3/2/2016 at 11:06 AM, maven said:

You revived a 6-month-old thread just to add that?

Got bored. Things are slow!!