IF INT?

[Larry in TN]

OBR/LL Seniors.  Bases loaded.  Pop-up will fall fair in the vicinity of 1B.  Umpires call infield-fly.  F3 fails to make the catch.  Ball falls and is ruled fair.  R1 reaches down and picks up the live ball.  What's the call?

 

 

[Man_In_Black]

I'm guessing that R1 may not have been completely clear on the infield fly rule and assumed that the ball was dead once the umpire made the call. Can't think of any other reason for his action.

Speculation aside, this is a simple interference call. Batter is out on the infield fly call and the ball is immediately dead upon being picked up by R1. R1 is out by rule on the INT call and R2 and R3 stay put. So in essence, it's a weird sort of double play...the sort of thing the infield fly rule is intended to prevent, ironically.

[maven]

If you determine that the runner was deliberately attempting to prevent a double play, you could get 3 outs here.

[ZebraStripes]

interesting double play you have there

[Larry in TN]

What I'm trying to find out is if R1's intentionally picking up the ball is enough to have him out on INT or if the umpire must also judge that the defense had a chance at making another out and R1 interfered with their chance to make it.

In this case, R3 was 15'-20' off 3B watching the action at 1B ready to break home if the opportunity presented itself but I'm more interested in the rule itself.

[maven]

What I'm trying to find out is if R1's intentionally picking up the ball is enough to have him out on INT or if the umpire must also judge that the defense had a chance at making another out and R1 interfered with their chance to make it.

In this case, R3 was 15'-20' off 3B watching the action at 1B ready to break home if the opportunity presented itself but I'm more interested in the rule itself.

He's touched by a live batted ball in front of all the infielders. Doesn't seem difficult!

The only question is whether to get 2 in addition to the BR.

[noumpere]

Sounds like more fodder fro whatever talking head wanted to makes the infield fly a dead ball.

 

How old is "LL seniors?"  Other than this play, how did they like playing in their first game?

[Rich Ives]

 

 

How old is "LL seniors?"  Other than this play, how did they like playing in their first game?

14-16

[Larry in TN]

LL Seniors division is 15/16 yrs.

[Man_In_Black]

OP doesn't say where the ball was.  Says F3 failed to make the catch though - might just meet the passed requirement.

Obviously the ball landed somewhere near R1's basepath to second. Or do you think he chased the popup into short right field to go pick it up before the defense could?

What did R1 do with the ball?  Hold on? Hand it to F3? Throw it to F1

What difference does it make? As soon as he touches it, the ball is dead. Anything occurring thereafter is irrelevant.

Interference requires hindrance. Was there any? Or was there assistance?

Sounds to me as though he prevented all defensive players from possibly making an out on R1 himself (he may have been far enough off of first to be tagged out by F3 or F4 had they been allowed to field the ball once it touched the ground), or on R2 or R3 if they had strayed from their bases. If that doesn't qualify as hinderance, I don't know what does.

After typing the above, I have to ask...you're just being facetious with this, right? Have I just been suckered in?

[DVA7130]

Simple interference. Double play

K.I.S.S.

[Larry in TN]

I was in the 3B dugout so didn't have the best angle but the ball came down just on the outfield side of the baseline near 1B.  F3 was under the ball but failed to make a catch--not sure if he touched it during his attempt.

The umpires called the IF but didn't even consider INT.  The defensive manager called time and went to the PU and asked for the INT call.  The umpires got together and discussed it but ruled no INT.  Their explanations included, "It's an IF fly" and "there was no chance for a play" (though R2 and R3 were both off their bases looking for an opportunity to advance).  Play continued without protest.  At the next changeover the BU came over and said that the manager was correct, it should have been INT.

What I'm trying to figure out is if R1 touching the live ball is enough, in itself, for INT or if the umpire must make some judgement regarding the likeliness of a play being made if not for R1's action.  Seems like there's still some disagreement on this point.  Would like to hear what Maven would have to say on this point.

Thanks...

[noumpere]

 Would like to hear what Maven would have to say on this point.

 

Well....

 

This is from OBR, I think we can apply it even if the ball was picked up and not kicked:

 

If, in the judgment of the umpire, the

runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted

ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the

runner shall be called out for interference.

[grayhawk]

I was in the 3B dugout so didn't have the best angle but the ball came down just on the outfield side of the baseline near 1B.  F3 was under the ball but failed to make a catch--not sure if he touched it during his attempt.

The umpires called the IF but didn't even consider INT.  The defensive manager called time and went to the PU and asked for the INT call.  The umpires got together and discussed it but ruled no INT.  Their explanations included, "It's an IF fly" and "there was no chance for a play" (though R2 and R3 were both off their bases looking for an opportunity to advance).  Play continued without protest.  At the next changeover the BU came over and said that the manager was correct, it should have been INT.

What I'm trying to figure out is if R1 touching the live ball is enough, in itself, for INT or if the umpire must make some judgement regarding the likeliness of a play being made if not for R1's action.  Seems like there's still some disagreement on this point.  Would like to hear what Maven would have to say on this point.

Thanks...

It's possible for a retired runner, or on-deck batter to pick up a live ball and not have interference called if runners were holding and there was no opportunity for the defense to make a play.  I don't feel like a runner is afforded this same leeway.  I would lean towards calling him out and keeping runners on their bases at TOI, even if no other play was possible.

[Senor Azul]

Here's a little history about the interference rules. This story is taken from Wikipedia:

 In a game against the Milwaukee Braves on April 21, 1957, Don Hoak was involved in a controversial play that would lead to a change in the rules. He was on second base and teammate Gus Bell was on first, when Wally Post hit a ground ball to short. Hoak broke up a potential double play by fielding the ball himself and flipping it to Milwaukee shortstop Johnny Logan. Hoak was called out for interference, but Post was given a single on the play.^[2] The day before, Johnny Temple let Bell’s ground ball hit him with the same result, Temple being called out for interference and Bell being awarded a single. The two incidents prompted league presidents Warren Giles and Will Harridge to jointly announce a rule change that declared both the runner and batter out if the runner intentionally interferes with a batted ball, with no runners allowed to advance. (Without the new rule, it was sometimes advantageous for a runner to touch a batted ball, because doing so avoided a double play. In the plays already mentioned, Temple and Hoak were out according to a still-existing rule: a runner is out if a batted ball touches him in fair territory before it touches a fielder, with the batter getting a single and no runner advancing unless forced.)

[basejester]

On your garden variety ground ball headed for the outfield (with no infielders with a play), the runner is (somewhat illogically) still out for interference if struck.  The standards for batted and thrown balls differ.  So, I think by the book this has to be an out.  This doesn't satisfy my sense of fair play.  SH*# happens.

 

 

[Rich Ives]

He's touched by a live batted ball in front of all the infielders. Doesn't seem difficult!

 

OP doesn't say where the ball was.  Says F3 failed to make the catch though - might just meet the passed requirement.

What did R1 do with the ball?  Hold on? Hand it to F3? Throw it to F1?

Interference requires hindrance. Was there any? Or was there assistance?

WHY IS THIS UNACCEPTABLE??

Edited September 2, 2015 by Rich Ives
Rating Objection