Tourney Dir Woes

[Umpire in Chief]

Had the first game of the first round of an American Legion Tournament last night. 

My partner and I walk out on the field and just get through the introductions and exchanging pleasantries at the plate with the coaches and up walks the Tourny Director in his American Legion shirt and hat. Judging by looking at him he may have been a veteran of the War of 1812 ... He starts welcoming the teams and then he begins going over the ground rules. My partner and I just sort of look at each other, but go with it.

Now this is a city owned field that most teams and umpires are very familiar with. There is a private school which uses it for their home games, there are Legion regular season games, adult league, and there are other games and tournaments played there and there are "standing" ground rules that everybody understands and has never had a problem with. 

Well as the TD is talking he has a convoluted out of play scenario where the dug out entrance is and a light pole. I couldn't even begin to accurately repeat this much less enforce it. My partner steps in and said "I see what you are saying, but it would be easier for everybody if we just did ... (the way it has always been done)."

The TD starts to hem and haw. Both the coaches chime in, they want it done my partner's way too. There is a little back and forth but finally the TD begrudgingly agrees. 

Now the TD goes on to some wires which are in play. The TD tells us if it hits the wires it is a ground rule double.

A coach asks, "Even if it's foul?"

The TD says it's still a double. Here come the coaches getting excited. My partner chimes in and says, "Normally on this field, we play this if it hits the wires foul, it's dead, which is by rule not subject to ground rules. So it will be dead if foul. If it hits the wires fair the ball is live and we play it (almost certainly will still be a HR). 

The TD once again hems and haws. He and the coaches go back and forth yet again but he meets us half-way and allows it to be dead on foul balls but absolutely insists on it being a double over live, so we go with that. And I was praying we wouldn't have the situation come up. I was already picturing a bases loaded hit that hits the wire and still goes over the fence and then calling it a GRD and needing a police escort off the field and all the way home.

Now he goes on to the scoreboard. He says if it hits the scoreboard it's a home run, even if it bounces over. Both the coaches are already objecting before the TD has even finished. There was even more back and forth between the coaches and the TD. My partner puts a wrap on this by saying if it hits the scoreboard in flight it's a home run. The tourny dir's face is turning sour now. He is becoming visibly upset that his proposed rules are being met with resistance. 

Well he's covered most of the field including things in the dugouts, in the bull pens, the foul poles, the foul lines and points out anywhere and everywhere there is any possibility of a ball getting out of the field. We now know a long story that just for this tournament they got a truck and moved the tarp to an adjacent field (why, I don't know I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time, but there is a fairly good chance of rain every day through the tournament and I don't think they will think it is such a good idea when it starts raining) He even reminds us that the fences down the left and right field lines past the bull pens are only 4 feet tall and the ball could go over them and then he concludes this by saying "But if the ball gets out it's one plus one. Coaches there will be no arguing and umpires you must enforce this correctly." 

I'd been quiet the whole 15 minute pre-game with this old man. At first it was sort of cute and funny he seemed like a good natured, but a little "lost," old man. But by this time it had jumped all the way to irritating. I chimed in "Sir, there is no such thing as one plus one; but if a ball leaves the playing area we will award bases accordingly." 

Without missing a beat, my partner jumps right in "Looks like were already running a little behind schedule so home team go ahead and take the field." The coaches took the cue shook hands really quickly and left. You could tell the TD had more to say, but I have a feeling we might still be there.

We didn't start on time, we didn't end on time and I felt really bad for the crew coming in for the next game. We did forewarn the plate guy to take immediate charge of the ground rules. 

Grrrr. What was he thinking???????

[alan2703]

Glad you warned the next crew

[lawump]

I have done a LOT of AL post-season tournaments.  All of my tournament directors have been fantastic.  They have really supported the umpires (especially on ejections).  I have never had one try to give the ground rules at the plate, however. 

When you get to the national level tournaments, the tournament directors are pros and are some of the best tournament directors around.  They run a very tight ship, and have always publicly supported the umpiring crew.  Sounds like you may have had a local legionnaire who needs some training from national on how to be a tournament director.  I'm sure he meant well and did not realize he was over-stepping his bounds.  Sounds like your partner found a good way to end it.

[smckin]

WOW!!!!!!

[Rich Ives]

4.05 (3.13) Special Ground Rules
The manager of the home team shall present to the umpire-in-chief and the opposing manager any ground rules he thinks necessary covering the overflow of spectators upon the playing field, batted or thrown balls into such overflow, or any other contingencies. If these rules are acceptable to the opposing manager they shall be legal. If these rules are unacceptable to the opposing manager, the umpire-in-chief shall make and enforce any special ground rules he thinks are made necessary by ground conditions, which shall not  conflict with the official playing rules.

If there's no home team I have no problem with the TD presenting them.

 

[DVA7130]

Nope, buzz off TD. I know this is your chance to feel in charge and important, but you lost all credibility when you sheriffed your way onto the field + blatant ignorance of the rules.

If there is no home team, it is going to be the umpires.

[Richvee]

4.05 (3.13) Special Ground Rules
The manager of the home team shall present to the umpire-in-chief and the opposing manager any ground rules he thinks necessary covering the overflow of spectators upon the playing field, batted or thrown balls into such overflow, or any other contingencies. If these rules are acceptable to the opposing manager they shall be legal. If these rules are unacceptable to the opposing manager, the umpire-in-chief shall make and enforce any special ground rules he thinks are made necessary by ground conditions, which shall not  conflict with the official playing rules.

If there's no home team I have no problem with the TD presenting them.

 

So let the TD "present" them. If they are unacceptable to the managers, by rule, the UIC shall make and enforce them.

[lawump]

Nope, buzz off TD. I know this is your chance to feel in charge and important, but you lost all credibility when you sheriffed your way onto the field + blatant ignorance of the rules.

If there is no home team, it is going to be the umpires.

If you tick off the wrong TD in Legion, you may never work another tournament again.  You may be fine with that...but just realize the consequences if you "buzz off" a post-season TD in Legion ball.

You need to tell your tourney crew chief and let him have a talk with the TD.

Edited July 30, 2015 by lawump

[DVA7130]

Would I yell at him to get off the field? No, but I would Not be happy.

Nothing is worst than an incompetent TD. I have no faith in him to back me up let alone be worth half a crap in the event of a protest. (see: bases loaded hits the power lines foul, or a throw out with a coach looking for 1+1)

That sounds like a Great organization to call for in this case. Politics with TD's? The guys in travel ball that likely make more than the umpires sitting in the stand kissing coaches' butts?

I really respect a good TD. I really do, but that is because they are so rare and this clown had no idea what he was doing.

I support the original vent.

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't think he's incompetent and I do think he had the best of intentions and seemed like he wanted to be the "in charge" guy, but just not necessarily prepared to be it in this situation. After the game my partner said, he was probably told to greet the teams and the umpires at the plate meeting and interpreted that as run the plate meeting. While my partner would get an A+ for handling the situation the who way through, he was polite and able to redirect things better than I could, keeping the coaches content when they were getting excitable without crushing the TD. In hind sight I kind of feel bad about how I had acted. 

I have no problem with TD establishing ground rules, especially if there is an ambiguous situation. In this case it really didn't need to be done.

[Rich Ives]

So let the TD "present" them. If they are unacceptable to the managers, by rule, the UIC shall make and enforce them.

No problem. Just don't tell the TD he can't do it - suicide.

[Richvee]

No problem. Just don't tell the TD he can't do it - suicide.

[zoops]

Almost all post-season tournaments in American Legion or High School that I've been a part of either give the ground rules in writing to each team prior to the tournament and/or have a pre-tournament meeting where the ground rules are presented and any questions or disagreements can be settled.  Eliminates confusion like this and also ensures the ground rules are uniform throughout the tourney.  

[HokieUmp]

No problem. Just don't tell the TD he can't do it - suicide.

For who?  The TD?  He sounds like he was heading for a natural death already.

Why are people afraid of doing their jobs?  Being in UIC's association (and I'm guessing this was over at the Azalea LL complex, right, Warren?), we get assigned by the association.  I would like to hope our current commish would tell the Legion folks to pound sand if they pulled some blackball BS because we hurt Abner Doubleday's feelings, especially when he's not right.  (Having worked that very field this year, I can tell you with 100% certainty that Abner is wrong if he thinks "that's how we play it here" for at least two of the things mentioned in the OP;  probably more, but I don't feel like re-reading it.)

Legion is dying in this area;  maybe they have more pull elsewhere in the country.

[Umpire in Chief]

I'm guessing this was over at the Azalea LL complex, right, Warren?

Legion is dying in this area;  maybe they have more pull elsewhere in the country.

Ding-Ding-Ding we have a winner...

Yes, while legion is very strong in other areas, it is dying here. They have too many other options. 

[Thawk]

Ding-Ding-Ding we have a winner...

Yes, while legion is very strong in other areas, it is dying here. They have too many other options. 

Dang, I was going to say Lakewood....  Definitely Legion is dying around here @‌HokieUmp, city is pushing RBI hard and heavy.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Thawk751

[HokieUmp]

Dang, I was going to say Lakewood....  Definitely Legion is dying around here @‌HokieUmp, city is pushing RBI hard and heavy.

What's RBI?  Have I done that, I wonder?  I don't recognize it, but Azalea is about as far towards the ocean as I've gotten this year.

I was supposed to be there Thursday, but the game was canceled.  (Maybe because they needed time to type up all those 'ground rules'?)

[Thawk]

What's RBI?  Have I done that, I wonder?  I don't recognize it, but Azalea is about as far towards the ocean as I've gotten this year.

I was supposed to be there Thursday, but the game was canceled.  (Maybe because they needed time to type up all those 'ground rules'?)

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