Balk or no balk

[umpref19]

Last night I was watching a Baseball game. The pitcher was in the stretch. Man on first and second. The pitcher brings his hands to a set position. When he does this instead of stepping back off the rubber, with his back foot he steps towards third base and breaks his pitcher motion. The umpires never called a balk on this. ( I hope I explained it correctly) Another time there was a player on third base and he did the same thing he took his back foot the one touching the rubber in the stretch position and just step towards third. I believe his coach taught him that it is legal that he doesn't have to step back off the rubber. As long as he steps far enough that he is not in contact with the rubber it is not a balk. Any thoughts on this Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[Rich Ives]

Last night I was watching a Baseball game. The pitcher was in the stretch. Man on first and second. The pitcher brings his hands to a set position. When he does this instead of stepping back off the rubber, with his back foot he steps towards third base and breaks his pitcher motion. The umpires never called a balk on this. ( I hope I explained it correctly) Another time there was a player on third base and he did the same thing he took his back foot the one touching the rubber in the stretch position and just step towards third. I believe his coach taught him that it is legal that he doesn't have to step back off the rubber. As long as he steps far enough that he is not in contact with the rubber it is not a balk. Any thoughts on this Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

You do not need to disengage (step back)  to make a pickoff throw to a base.

In some rules you cannot fake a pickoff throw to 3B. In others you can.

[umpref19]

He was not making a pick off move. He was just stepping with his back foot. Also in what rules can you fake a pick off to third? It change you have to throw to third if you make a motion to third unless you step off Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[MadMax]

He was not making a pick off move. He was just stepping with his back foot. Also in what rules can you fake a pick off to third? It change you have to throw to third if you make a motion to third unless you step off Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

NFHS / Fed still has not adopted that change (and may never, just to spite OBR), @umpref19, such that a fake towards 3B (if occupied) is still legal in its Rulebook.

[umpref19]

Can you send me the rule because in Massachusetts we play obr Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[Rich Ives]

You can fake to 3B in LL also. 8.05(b )  (Current LL number - pre-2015 OBR number)

The OBR rule says " . . or third . . ".  The LL rule does not.

FED

Rule 6 Section 2 ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk:
a. any feinting toward the batter or first base,

Note that it just says first base. Third base is not mentioned.

 

[umpref19]

Rich where are you from that you play FED in high school Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[Jimurray]

If this was a RHP with R1 and R2, the step back toward 3B was what's called a "jab step" and is not a legal disengage but is part of a legal motion to then step with the free foot and throw to 1B. If that didn't happen it would be a balk unless the umps perceived the pivot "back" foot as landing completely behind the rubber and being a legal disengage.

 

[Rich Ives]

Rich where are you from that you play FED in high school Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

NY.

Mass is the only state that doesn't use FED rules in HS.

[maven]

Another time there was a player on third base and he did the same thing he took his back foot the one touching the rubber in the stretch position and just step towards third. I believe his coach taught him that it is legal that he doesn't have to step back off the rubber. As long as he steps far enough that he is not in contact with the rubber it is not a balk.

As I read this, the pivot foot, and only the pivot foot, is stepping toward 3B. If that's not what is going on, please clarify.

That is not a legal disengagement, and is a balk in all codes. In particular, the highlighted claim above is false: legal disengagement is a step back, directly behind the rubber.

This has nothing to do with throwing/feinting to an unoccupied base, feinting to 3B, jump/jab steps, or any of the other restrictions pertaining to stepping with the free foot. If I've read the OP correctly, the free foot is not moving (or moves only after the pivot touches in a step sideways).

[umpref19]

Last night the pitcher step with his pivot foot to the end of the rubber. Not in the back of the rubber. He did like 4x. I couldn't stop laughing and looking at the person I was with saying that is a balk. I don't know if the umpires didn't know the balk rules or were afraid to call a balk. Unfortunately I know a lot of umpires who do not know what is a balk. I know too many umpires that just join the association I belong to because they want easy money and they think because they watch it on TV they can umpire Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[maven]

Last night the pitcher step with his pivot foot to the end of the rubber. Not in the back of the rubber. He did like 4x. I couldn't stop laughing and looking at the person I was with saying that is a balk. I don't know if the umpires didn't know the balk rules or were afraid to call a balk. Unfortunately I know a lot of umpires who do not know what is a balk. I know too many umpires that just join the association I belong to because they want easy money and they think because they watch it on TV they can umpire Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

Sounds as if you're in a position to help train them, advise them about nearby clinics, and so forth. That's a great way to help your association members improve.

[umpref19]

I wish I could. However, we have a interpreter that last taught the class and had 1 hour of field mechanics and 2 hours of behind the plate. If anyone tries to suggest more time for mechanics if the interpreter is not around then he doesn't want anyone doing it. That is why this year I am going to suggest that we have a 2 year class. First year you are a cadet and you work on mechanics and studying the rules. Second year take the test and a mechanics test and if you pass both you become a umpire Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[umpstu]

As I read this, the pivot foot, and only the pivot foot, is stepping toward 3B. If that's not what is going on, please clarify.

That is not a legal disengagement, and is a balk in all codes. In particular, the highlighted claim above is false: legal disengagement is a step back, directly behind the rubber.

This has nothing to do with throwing/feinting to an unoccupied base, feinting to 3B, jump/jab steps, or any of the other restrictions pertaining to stepping with the free foot. If I've read the OP correctly, the free foot is not moving (or moves only after the pivot touches in a step sideways).

Thanks, Maven.  I thought I was reading it wrong all three times I read this.  You can't step towards any bag with your pivot foot.  Still wondering if he worded the OP wrong.

[Jimurray]

Thanks, Maven.  I thought I was reading it wrong all three times I read this.  You can't step towards any bag with your pivot foot.  Still wondering if he worded the OP wrong.

The OP needs clarifying but I think what he is describing is a balk. But, in a move to 1B, a RHP can step toward 3B with his pivot foot provided that he makes a legal step toward 1B with his free foot and the move is continuous. (jab step).

[umpref19]

The RHP just stepped towards 3b with his foot that is touching the rubber. Than he walked around the mound. When I was watching this myself I said that is a balk but the umpires on the field never called it. They play mlb rules. With a runner on 3b only he step towards 3rd base with the foot that is touching the rubber without throwing the ball and nothing was called. Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

If they play OBR, then it's a balk to feint to third, and it's a balk to step toward a base (well, other than second, I guess, as part of a disengagement) with the non-pivot foot.

 

Advance all runners two bases.

 

You'd have to ask the umpires what they saw to determine why it wasn't called.