running misses bag at first

[jhopp]

Runner on third, two outs, ground ball to short.

Throw to first is off target so 1st basemen isn't on bag when he catches the ball....

however, the runner over step steps the bag and never touches it.

He is originally called safe by ump via rule of runner missing a bag, but on appeal

is called out when first baseman tags the runner before he can return to 1st and appeals that he missed the bag.

Before the appeal is granted, the runner scores from 3rd.

The defense argues run shouldn't count because runner missed bag and out was still a force out,

offense argues the runner was out on appeal, not a force, run should count.

 

does run count?

[Cav]

Nope.  NFHS 9-1-1; CB 9.1.1.I

[pnewton]

OBR 4.09 - "HOW A TEAM SCORES. (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases"

(Italic for my emphasis)

 

In your situation the batter-runner had not yet touched first base.

[Rich Ives]

Find rule 4.09 in OBR. Read all the Approved Rulings. You will find one where the runner is out on appeal for missing first base.  Check the result.

[jhopp]

OBR 4.09 - "HOW A TEAM SCORES. (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases"

(Italic for my emphasis)

 

In your situation the batter-runner had not yet touched first base.

Ok, so according to the rule 4.09: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases"

now, from my understanding if there is a runner on 3rd and a runner on 2nd and fly ball to outfield....both runners tag up, runner is safe at home.....defense appeals guy on 2nd left early and win appeal.....runner who left 2nd is ruled out but run that scored is allowed due to appeal out is considered a timing out......this seems fair, but if he was  a runner on first, tagged up legally, ran to second and overstepped second and somehow made it all the way to 3rd....defense could then appeal he overstepped 2nd and win the appeal.....then the runner who tagged up legally from 3rd would not be allowed according to about exception to rule 4.09......this does not seem fair. How come a tag up appeal allows a run to score, but a over run base causes score to be disallowed. they both seem like appeal plays. I get the force out appeal one at first....but not the one where runner oversteps a non-force base. if I'm wrong about the tag up appeal let me know, or clarify I'm right please.

[maven]

OK, you've got a bunch of plays going. Let's straighten them out.

1. R2, R3, 1 out. Batter flies out to the outfield. R3 retouches and scores. R2 retouches but leaves early. The defense appeals R2's retouch, and the umpire rules R2 out. The run scores: R2's retouch was not a force play (a retouch appeal can never be a force play), so this is a time play. Since R3 scored before the third out, his run counts.
2. R1, R3, 1 out. Batter flies out to the outfield. R3 retouches and scores. R1 retouches and advances to 3B on the throw to the plate, missing 2B. The defense appeals the missed base, and the umpire rules R1 out. The run scores: since the batter was out on the catch, R1 is not forced to advance, so the play at 2B is not a force play. So this is a time play, and since R3 scored before the third out, his run counts.

When the BR misses 1B and the defense appeals the miss, the run cannot score. Not because he was forced — there was no runner behind him to force him — but because 4.09 states no run can score if the BR makes the third out before touching 1B. That's what happened here, so that rule applies.

[jhopp]

OK, you've got a bunch of plays going. Let's straighten them out.

1. R2, R3, 1 out. Batter flies out to the outfield. R3 retouches and scores. R2 retouches but leaves early. The defense appeals R2's retouch, and the umpire rules R2 out. The run scores: R2's retouch was not a force play (a retouch appeal can never be a force play), so this is a time play. Since R3 scored before the third out, his run counts.
2. R1, R3, 1 out. Batter flies out to the outfield. R3 retouches and scores. R1 retouches and advances to 3B on the throw to the plate, missing 2B. The defense appeals the missed base, and the umpire rules R1 out. The run scores: since the batter was out on the catch, R1 is not forced to advance, so the play at 2B is not a force play. So this is a time play, and since R3 scored before the third out, his run counts.

When the BR misses 1B and the defense appeals the miss, the run cannot score. Not because he was forced — there was no runner behind him to force him — but because 4.09 states no run can score if the BR makes the third out before touching 1B. That's what happened here, so that rule applies.

ok, thanks. I think i got it now.