Really Late Slide into Catcher

[aiber]

Last night during a HS game, play at the plate where catcher receives throw early for an easy call. However, the runner is really fast and slides in really late and hard, taking out the catcher (flipping him over). Catcher remains on ground and hurts ankle. Coach comes out complaining that runner should be ejected. I said, "Coach, I got nothing. There was no malicious contact."

Anything in the rules about sliding in late into home?

[bleacher_bum]

Nope

[Thunderheads]

2-32-2

paraphrased......

 

Illegal Slide:

• rolling or cross body pop up slide into fielder
• raised leg is higher than the fielder's knee
• runner goes beyond the base and then makes  contact or alters the play
• runner slashes or kicks the fielder
• runner tries to injure the fielder
• runner on a force play...does not slide in a direct line to the base

[goody14]

If the options are between a late slide or trucking the catcher, late slide is better for all involved.

[aiber]

If the options are between a late slide or trucking the catcher, late slide is better for all involved.

Trucking a catcher results in an out and ejection. That's easy. The situation I am talking about is more difficult to judge. He went in really hard and late and made contact right at the ankles. Also, since the runner is really fast, it looked bad.

[ZebraStripes]

Sounds like it was one we would have to see for intent, but short of that, I have nothing.  

[Majordave]

Sometimes you just gotta umpire........

 

Your judgment is the key.  Did you believe the late, hard slide was performed with an intent to knock the catcher down and possibly dislodge the ball?  Such as a late, high, hard breakup of a double play?  Sometimes it is clean but sometimes it is not.  YOUR judgment is the key.

 

Tough to do but that's why you are there.  I have had some that were just good, hard baseball plays and some that they tried to sell as clean and hard but were not.

 

You just have to be there and know the context of the slide, the game situation, the experience level of the players, how the coaches coach the players, what is said from the dugouts and fans.

 

Personal story:  One high school team that I worked several times had a culture of yelling "BREAK IT UP!" by everyone associated with the team (Coaches in boxes, entire dugout, bullpen, fans, everyone associated with that team who was paying attention) on ground balls in the infield with the potential of a DP.  

 

I was base guy for a district rivalry game for them as visitors and my partner did not come out from the plate and look for FPSR.  I turned with the throw from the easy out at 2nd to watch and call the close play at first.  I did not see their R1 go in very aggressively and overslide the bag to cut the crap out of the home team's F6 with a spike and cause him to leave the game for stitches at the local ER.  I distinctly remember the yelling of "BREAK IT UP! by all their team and fans and the coaches.  

 

Saw and heard this yelling without contact more than once in other games with them.  

 

Final episode with them: I was plate guy at their place the last time I worked one of their games and here it was again, homeboys losing big, R1, ground ball to F6, DP eminent, BREAK IT UP! is yelled, sure enough the home R1 takes out the F4 on back side of the bag.  I get the FPSR Violation DP and then eject R1 for malicious contact.  Then I get to eject both base coaches for arguing the call.

 

They ran at me at 2B area and were screaming.  I have never worked there again.  I admit I was highly sensitized to the possibility due to earlier incidents and experience but I know I got it right.  Terrible that it happened but I hope that was the extreme version of what could happen and that I fixed it.  My EJ report to assigner and state included background events and recommendations for training of coaches of that school.  Instead they got fired at the end of the season.  Not sure if my report had anything to do with it but they were the antithesis of what good high school coaches and good sportsmanship should have been.  

[johnnyg08]

Curious...why would your EJ report include anything about coach training?

Shouldn't EJ reports detail the facts of the incident?

[Jimurray]

If the options are between a late slide or trucking the catcher, late slide is better for all involved.

Trucking a catcher results in an out and ejection. That's easy. The situation I am talking about is more difficult to judge. He went in really hard and late and made contact right at the ankles. Also, since the runner is really fast, it looked bad.

Was one leg and buttock on the ground when he hit the catcher. A late slide might have not yet on the ground.

[Majordave]

Curious...why would your EJ report include anything about coach training?

Shouldn't EJ reports detail the facts of the incident?

Because I felt like it.  This team was out of control.  They had been getting away with stuff that should not have been allowed.  If not me, who?  It kept escalating with no action by anyone.  I felt it was my duty.  I have a higher regard for what should be and took it upon myself to add it in.  I got no negative feedback from the report.

[ricka56]

Was one leg and buttock on the ground when he hit the catcher. A late slide might have not yet on the ground.

 

^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^ It isn't a legal slide if the runner isn't sliding.

What you might have is a flying crash into F2 which, IMO, would be MC.

[ElkOil]

How far up the line was the catcher?  If you feel that there was no possible way for the contact to result in a score and was done with malicious intent, yeah, you'd call that.  But otherwise, as others have said, as long as the slide isn't illegal, you've just got good, aggressive baseball.  If the ball arrived early, the catcher can still make the play without positioning himself in the basepath, but that isn't a requirement.  Contact is part of the game.

[labguy1971]

^{Your judgement is all I can say on this.}