foul ball

[Guest Chris]

situation 1: no one on, no count... Batter hits ball straight back to f2... Ball hits f2's chest protector and pops up in the air. The f2 catches the deflection in the air.

Situation 2: same scenario... Batter hits pop up to f5 in foul territory. He loses the ball In the sun... The ball hits his shoulder and pops in the air, he then catches the deflection.

Rule cite too please. Thank you!

[maven]

1. Judge whether it's a fly ball. If so, foul out. If not, foul ball. OBR 2.00 FLY BALL, FOUL BALL, CATCH, IN FLIGHT
2. Catch, batter is out. OBR 2.00 CATCH, IN FLIGHT

[Omega194]

Both situations batter is out when ball is caught before touching the ground. I think it's 5.9 or so.

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[Rich Ives]

1) is just a foul ball. It cannot be caught for an out.

 

OBR

 

 

2.00 A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s
hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught
is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first
touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

FED

 

2.16.2 SITUATION A: B2 swings and tips the ball and a) the ball goes directly
to the catcher’s glove and then rebounds to the catcher’s chest protector, then the
ball is caught by the catcher; or b) the ball goes directly to the catcher’s chest protector
and then is caught by the catcher. RULING: In a), the pitch is a strike and
remains live. In b), this is a foul ball.

[BigUmpire]

1) is just a foul ball. It cannot be caught for an out.

 

2.00 A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s

hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught

is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first

touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

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[Rich Ives]

 

1) is just a foul ball. It cannot be caught for an out.

 

2.00 A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s

hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught

is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first

touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

???????????????????????????????

 

 

If it's not a catch it cannot be an out. You can only be out if the ball is caught.

 

It isn't an out in FED either. See my edits above.

[noumpere]

 

1) is just a foul ball. It cannot be caught for an out.

 

2.00 A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s

hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught

is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first

touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

???????????????????????????????

 

I'm a little confused as to why you would have a question on this.  If the ball goes "sharply and directly" to the catcher and hits him first in other than the hand or mitt, it's a foul ball.  That's the OP.

 

If it hits the hand or glove first and is caught, it's a foul tip.

 

If there's an arc (iow, not "sharply and directly") and is caught, it's an out.

[Senor Azul]

But now you have to define "arc." The definition in rule 2.00 of "fly ball" isn't much help:

 

A fly ball is a batted ball that goes high in the air in flight.

 

As far as I know, there is no official OBR interpretation clarifying how high the batted ball must be to qualify as a fly ball. Federation rules have one though:

 

"Appreciable height" means the batted ball must rise above the batter's head before it can be caught for an out.

 

 

Should we use that standard for OBR and NCAA?

[1dumbquestion]

No need to define the arc. The rule says "sharp and direct" that is all that is needed. It is either sharp and direct and the foul tip rules apply or it is not and can be caught for an out. No arc, fly ball def or appriciable hieght needed. It's sharp and direct or all others. 1

[noumpere]

 

 

 

But now you have to define "arc." The definition in rule 2.00 of "fly ball" isn't much help:

 

A fly ball is a batted ball that goes high in the air in flight.

 

As far as I know, there is no official OBR interpretation clarifying how high the batted ball must be to qualify as a fly ball. Federation rules have one though:

 

"Appreciable height" means the batted ball must rise above the batter's head before it can be caught for an out.

 

 

Should we use that standard for OBR and NCAA?

 

Arc:  Anything you can perceive as not being a straight line.

 

Same in FED (at least on this issue)

[conbo61]

Here is one that prompted many an argument on the sandlot back in the day.

 

Pitch comes in, batter takes a mighty swing and gets slightly under the ball, and it goes straight up (with tremendous backspin), but only goes up 6-7" (NOT over the batters head).  Catcher snares it out of mid-air.

 

Do you have an out?

 

The sandlot argument was that it had to go over the batters head.

[grayhawk]

In the sandlot, the rules are established by whoever brought the ball because we all know what happens when he gets mad.

[conbo61]

In the sandlot, the rules are established by whoever brought the ball because we all know what happens when he gets mad.

Understood. But I have seen this happen in a game, but fortunately it was not caught.

What is the call and can you provide a rule citation.

[grayhawk]

In the sandlot, the rules are established by whoever brought the ball because we all know what happens when he gets mad.

Understood. But I have seen this happen in a game, but fortunately it was not caught.

What is the call and can you provide a rule citation.

Was it "sharp and direct to the catcher's hand or mitt?

If not (which is your situation), then it was caught for an out.

[Rich Ives]

 

In the sandlot, the rules are established by whoever brought the ball because we all know what happens when he gets mad.

Understood. But I have seen this happen in a game, but fortunately it was not caught.

What is the call and can you provide a rule citation.

 

 

2.00 Foul tip.  If it didn't go sharp and direct it's a fly ball.  That's why you get the big bucks.

[1dumbquestion]

 

In the sandlot, the rules are established by whoever brought the ball because we all know what happens when he gets mad.

Understood. But I have seen this happen in a game, but fortunately it was not caught.

What is the call and can you provide a rule citation.

 

The only rule site we'll have for you is 2.00 with "sharp and direct".  There isn't going to be a rule that says "for anything else" it's like trying to prove a negative. Think about it this way: did the F2 "react" in order to catch the ball, if so it wasn't sharp and direct and must be something other than a foul tip? In your sandlot case he must have reacted and it's an out. 1

[conbo61]

I would call the out, based on the "get an out" principle.  That being said, it would be nice to have rule backing (other than 9.01©).  In this instance, it is not a foul tip, nor a fly ball, nor a line drive based upon the definitions in 2.00.

 

Interestingly, those definitions do provide an implied sense of trajectory.

 

FTR - a "pop fly" is not defined.

[1dumbquestion]

How about 6.05a:  A batter is out when- his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder. It's not an out based on any "get the out" theary it's an out by black and white rule. 1

[conbo61]

How about 6.05a: A batter is out when- his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder. It's not an out based on any "get the out" theary it's an out by black and white rule. 1

And a fly ball is a batted ball that goes HIGH in the air in flight.

[1dumbquestion]

 

How about 6.05a: A batter is out when- his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder. It's not an out based on any "get the out" theary it's an out by black and white rule. 1

And a fly ball is a batted ball that goes HIGH in the air in flight.

 

Go back to the "prove a negative" theory. If it's not a FT and not yet a foul ball it must be a batted ball and can still be caught for an out, right?

[conbo61]

How about 6.05a: A batter is out when- his fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder. It's not an out based on any "get the out" theary it's an out by black and white rule. 1

And a fly ball is a batted ball that goes HIGH in the air in flight.

Go back to the "prove a negative" theory. If it's not a FT and not yet a foul ball it must be a batted ball and can still be caught for an out, right?

Yes sir, I am agreeing with you. That is my logic (in conjunction with "get an out") I am merely pointing out a gap in the language of the rules. Two phrases that are the umpire's best friend: " Coach, BY RULE..." and "Coach, IN MY JUDGMENT..." Just trying to find a way to apply either to this case.

[Rich Ives]

Here's the NCAA version:

SECTION 8. A foul tip is a ball batted by the batter while standing within the
lines of the batter’s box that travels directly from the bat to the catcher’s hands
and is caught legally by the catcher. If trapped or not caught, it simply is a foul
ball. Any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch
if it is a rebound, unless the ball first has touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

It's not an out anywhere!

[noumpere]

 I am merely pointing out a gap in the language of the rules.

 

 

No way!  A gap in the language of the rules?  Impossible.

 

Or, sometimes you just need to umpire.

[Guest roothog66]

Maybe I'm not understanding. So, if a ball was fouled back, struck the catcher's mask and popped up into the air far enough, most of you would call that a fly ball?

[1dumbquestion]

Maybe I'm not understanding. So, if a ball was fouled back, struck the catcher's mask and popped up into the air far enough, most of you would call that a fly ball?

Nope. Once the ball hit the mask it became foul and cannot be caught for an out or become a foul tip (unless it hit the hand or glove prior to hitting the mask). 1

[BretMan]

"Appreciable height" means the batted ball must rise above the batter's head before it can be caught for an out.

 

Can you provide any written rule, case play, or interpretation that defines "appreciable height" as "higher than the batter's head"? Where exactly are you getting that?