OOO or proper?

[JonnyCat]

uhhh...does anyone else find it weird that two kids shared a cup?

You're the first one to comment on that. I thought it was weird, too.

 

Great comments, thanks for the discussion. I did not mind so much that my partner has a habit of asking, I just think that it is not our responsibility. Not only that, but this was a tournament game with time limits. We did waste a few minutes sorting out this fiasco. No one complained, but it could have been an issue. I'm hoping I can convince him to change his ways.

[JonnyCat]

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

[Rich Ives]

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

[UMP45]

I agree about not asking directly, but what if F2 offers the info like "Oh Man!  I hope nothing bad happens today.  I forgot my cup!"

 

Now you know he's not properly equipped.  Ignore?

At THIS time I do something. I discreetly let the coach know what is going on and HE needs to solve the problem.

[Mudisfun]

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

 

I think you mean 9.01b not 8.01b

[JonnyCat]

 

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

 

You commented that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. How does your league handle the supporter provision? After all, it is a rule and according to you, it must be enforced.

Just wondering how your league handles it. I'm curious to know how your league instructs the umpires in enforcement of that rule. Or is it one that your league chooses to ignore.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

 

You commented that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. How does your league handle the supporter provision? After all, it is a rule and according to you, it must be enforced.

Just wondering how your league handles it. I'm curious to know how your league instructs the umpires in enforcement of that rule. Or is it one that your league chooses to ignore.

 

I see the point, and I agree. We do not enforce all the LL rules nor should we. The example you give is one. Others include age verification, residency eligibility. Oh..and I'm not counting pitches either. Some rules are for the coaches to concern themselves with. Not us. 

[MidAmUmp]

http://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk?t=1m

[BalkHawk]

 You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

It is true that many LL coaches don't know their ass from a hold in the ground, which is, perhaps, the game's most fundamental flaw.

However, before I ever busted an infield fly, I had a firm grasp on how lawyers could ruin my life if I had a truly bad game.

Most importantly, I didn't need any clinic to tell me that I can't instruct someone else's kid to touch themselves in the privates.

Furthermore, if I had a partner who insisted on doing so every game, I would have to block an umpire for the first time.

[BalkHawk]

F this whole thread.

I should have spent my toilet time coming up with facetious reasons for BU not to use the 'A' position.

[Replacematt]

This thread reminds me of what happened 15-20 years ago...a female catcher was found not to be wearing a cup and wasn't allowed to catch. The next game she had one, strapped around her ankle.

 

Edit:  Link

[BalkHawk]

I should have spent my toilet time coming up with facetious reasons for BU not to use the 'A' position.

Here they are folks: my TOP SIX REASONS TO DO AWAY WITH 'A'

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/60103-do-away-with-a/

[Rich Ives]

 

 

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

 

You commented that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. How does your league handle the supporter provision? After all, it is a rule and according to you, it must be enforced.

Just wondering how your league handles it. I'm curious to know how your league instructs the umpires in enforcement of that rule. Or is it one that your league chooses to ignore.

 

 

Find me a league anywhere that cares about the jock.   Cup yes. Jock no.

[JonnyCat]

 

 

 

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

 

You commented that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. How does your league handle the supporter provision? After all, it is a rule and according to you, it must be enforced.

Just wondering how your league handles it. I'm curious to know how your league instructs the umpires in enforcement of that rule. Or is it one that your league chooses to ignore.

 

 

Find me a league anywhere that cares about the jock.   Cup yes. Jock no.

 

I understand that, as do most people. There are some rules we actively enforce, and some we don't. But you have contradicted yourself. One one hand you say that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. You have even gone as far as criticizing umpires on this very board for ignoring rules, or choosing to ignore rules.

 

Now your are advocating ignoring rules? Which one is it, Rich? Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

 

 

 

Will someone please tell Bam that running a LL is a team effort and the umpires are part of the team.

 

In addition to that basic concept:

 

8.01 (b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and of Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

 

In a safety-first organization like LL it is everyone's job to make sure the safety rules are followed. Trust, but verify.

BTW. Are you advocating that LL umpires enforce the mandatory athletic supporter rule, too?

 

I think most people in LL that use 8.01(b) in enforcement of LL rules are taking the interpretation too far. "Required to enforce all of these rules" does not mean that a LL umpire must proactively look for violations that are not visibly apparent or does not present itself directly to an umpire. The athletic supporter rule is a good example. You're telling us that LL umpires are required to enforce all rules. So tell me how to enforce that one, Rich?

 

As an umpire, I am not actively looking for every single rule violation. When a violation presents itself, I will deal with it accordingly. I will not check for cups or supporters. I will not rifle through equipment bags looking for illegal equipment. (I've seen many LL umpires do this.) I'm not checking helmets for missing warning lables or missing NOCSAE stamps. (Yes, seen LL umpires do that, too).

 

The rule quoted requires LL umpires to enforce the rules. It is not a license to go looking for violations to show everyone how up to date you are on your rules knowledge.

 

 

You are supposed to verify equipment in LL because a large % of the coaches don't understand the requirements.

 

If the helmet is missing a NOCSAE stamp (they're embossed) then it never had one and is not legal. Check.

 

No asks anyone to physically check for a jock or cup. Just ask about the cup.  Many of the kids will knock as a way of saying yes.

 

You commented that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. How does your league handle the supporter provision? After all, it is a rule and according to you, it must be enforced.

Just wondering how your league handles it. I'm curious to know how your league instructs the umpires in enforcement of that rule. Or is it one that your league chooses to ignore.

 

 

Find me a league anywhere that cares about the jock.   Cup yes. Jock no.

 

I understand that, as do most people. There are some rules we actively enforce, and some we don't. But you have contradicted yourself. One one hand you say that LL umpires are required to enforce all of the rules. You have even gone as far as criticizing umpires on this very board for ignoring rules, or choosing to ignore rules.

 

Now your are advocating ignoring rules? Which one is it, Rich? Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

 

But you're injecting pudding into the discussion. Keep it on cake.

 

We are discussing WHO enforces the rules, not which rules to enforce.

 

And just to comment on the "which" issue: The one I cited covers who and using this one is necessary at the LL level based on my 40 years of experience in LL dealing with a variety of persons with varying knowledge of the rules.

[Thunderheads]

@Rich Ives ...

@JonnyCat is referring to your post (#24) .....  I don't see where his question isn't valid

[Rich Ives]

@Rich Ives ...

@JonnyCat is referring to your post (#24) .....  I don't see where his question isn't valid

 

You enforce the rules that matter - right?   When's the last time you enforced the "stay in the coach's box at all times" rule? OTOH I'll bet you never said - "Out cause it was close enough"

 

Enforcement BY ALL matters at the LL level. Some things can be left to others at the shaving levels.   If folks can't handle that difference  they should avoid LL.

 

Cups matter. Jocks don't.

[JonnyCat]

 

@Rich Ives ...

@JonnyCat is referring to your post (#24) .....  I don't see where his question isn't valid

 

You enforce the rules that matter - right?   When's the last time you enforced the "stay in the coach's box at all times" rule? OTOH I'll bet you never said - "Out cause it was close enough"

 

Enforcement BY ALL matters at the LL level. Some things can be left to others at the shaving levels.   If folks can't handle that difference  they should avoid LL.

 

Cups matter. Jocks don't.

 

Oh I get it. You now advocate not enforcing the rules that don't matter? Seems like a change in position Rich. Let me ask you this, who gets to decide which rules don't matter? Coaches, umpires, leagues?

 

You have criticized umpires here for not enforcing some rules. Are you now changing your position?

[scrounge]

 

 

@Rich Ives ...

@JonnyCat is referring to your post (#24) .....  I don't see where his question isn't valid

 

You enforce the rules that matter - right?   When's the last time you enforced the "stay in the coach's box at all times" rule? OTOH I'll bet you never said - "Out cause it was close enough"

 

Enforcement BY ALL matters at the LL level. Some things can be left to others at the shaving levels.   If folks can't handle that difference  they should avoid LL.

 

Cups matter. Jocks don't.

 

Oh I get it. You now advocate not enforcing the rules that don't matter? Seems like a change in position Rich. Let me ask you this, who gets to decide which rules don't matter? Coaches, umpires, leagues?

 

You have criticized umpires here for not enforcing some rules. Are you now changing your position?

 

 

Come on, man, isn't this just playin' gotcha?

[JonnyCat]

Absolutely!

[JaxRolo]

Rules are meant to be broken and not enforced!