Umpires who can't/won't/don't do their jobs

[umpire_scott]

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

Aaron,

 

It's not about worrying what they think and react to.  It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire.  "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone.  Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing.  The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have.  Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants?  You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect.  Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules.  If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.  

 

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under.  If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring).  I don't care whether I give warnings or not.  My job is to enforce rules not coach players.  So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer.  I think that's is being flexible to the situation.  And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC.  If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc).  If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting.  The TD is the one that makes the rules.  So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

 

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk.  Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks.  My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that.  UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket.  Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done.  If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me.  I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way.  Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do.  If it is not addressed then no warnings.  This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all.  But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.  

[umpire_scott]

Scott, no one has said not to call the obvious balks. They are just saying to call to the level of ball you are doing ie you'd give a 9u pitcher a little more room (hopefully) than you would a 13u pitcher. They're also saying don't over officiate. Stop picking boogers and being that guy. It's not a rep you want.

 

And I agree with this statement in general.  These are the two prevailing philosophies that seemed to be supported in this post that I had issue with.  If I'm read them incorrectly then I apologize:

 

1.  Jason and Rolando both seemed to be implying that at younger levels they would warn or "preventive umpire" on even obvious balks.  Jason said that if the pitcher dropped the ball on the mound, or fell off the mound he would call it but pretty much anything else he would do some preventive umpiring.  Maybe I took him too literally?  In a post where Fleas ran down several things that happened the pissed him off (which included an obvious balk by a 12U pitcher) Rolando stated he would ignore everything but the lightning.

 

2.  The general philosophy that umpires have the authority to ignore directives from TD's and UIC's.

[umpire_scott]

Scott, no one has said not to call the obvious balks. They are just saying to call to the level of ball you are doing ie you'd give a 9u pitcher a little more room (hopefully) than you would a 13u pitcher. They're also saying don't over officiate. Stop picking boogers and being that guy. It's not a rep you want.

 

Maybe I misinterpreted what others were saying.  The impression I got is that they were saying to ignore or preventive umpire in cases of balks for 12U and under, even if the TD/UIC specifically gave a directive to not give warnings.  Fleas gave a list of directives given by the tournament director on other things and a few posted that they would have ignored them.  I'm simply not going to ignore something that was a directive from the tournament director.  I find that behavior to be unprofessional.  Once again if I misinterpreted what they were saying then I apologize.

 

Some balk rules are subjective (pause/no pause) and some are not (stepping off with the free foot).  Subjective balks I can preventive umpire without directive from a TD as long as I could justifiably say "he was close to a pause".  If he blew right through it and 100 out of 100 umpires would call it a balk then there would have to be understanding that we were giving warnings.  If there wasn't than he's getting balked, even at 9U.  It's about consistency.  There has to be some standard to go by.  What if one side is balking all day and I'm warning them and the other side is much better about it and never balks.  The balking side will have successfully shut down the other sides running game.  It impacts competition on the field.  

 

I'm not "that guy".  I've never had one complaint about me picking boogers.  If anything I've been the guy that is too hesitant to call stuff.

[RichMSN]

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Aaron,

It's not about worrying what they think and react to. It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire. "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone. Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing. The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have. Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants? You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect. Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules. If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under. If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring). I don't care whether I give warnings or not. My job is to enforce rules not coach players. So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer. I think that's is being flexible to the situation. And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC. If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc). If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting. The TD is the one that makes the rules. So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk. Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks. My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that. UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket. Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done. If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me. I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way. Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do. If it is not addressed then no warnings. This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all. But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.

If I was coaching and you told my players to not play in a particular spot, I'd probably blow a gasket. There's no rule against where fielders can set up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Replacematt]

 

 

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Aaron,

It's not about worrying what they think and react to. It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire. "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone. Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing. The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have. Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants? You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect. Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules. If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under. If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring). I don't care whether I give warnings or not. My job is to enforce rules not coach players. So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer. I think that's is being flexible to the situation. And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC. If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc). If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting. The TD is the one that makes the rules. So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk. Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks. My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that. UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket. Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done. If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me. I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way. Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do. If it is not addressed then no warnings. This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all. But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.

 

If I was coaching and you told my players to not play in a particular spot, I'd probably blow a gasket. There's no rule against where fielders can set up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Also, if he's "almost" not pausing, he's legal, and that's how he's maximizing his advantage. 

 

And it's not OBS until it happens.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Aaron,

It's not about worrying what they think and react to. It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire. "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone. Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing. The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have. Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants? You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect. Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules. If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under. If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring). I don't care whether I give warnings or not. My job is to enforce rules not coach players. So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer. I think that's is being flexible to the situation. And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC. If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc). If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting. The TD is the one that makes the rules. So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk. Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks. My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that. UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket. Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done. If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me. I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way. Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do. If it is not addressed then no warnings. This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all. But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.

 

If I was coaching and you told my players to not play in a particular spot, I'd probably blow a gasket. There's no rule against where fielders can set up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Sorry I reread my post and I did not state it clearly.  I meant if a ball is in play and the runners are running the bases and I notice the kids standing on the base or near where the runner would be running I will tell them after the play that they need to be aware of the runners.  I would never tell a kid where to stand before the ball has been put into play or while it's in play.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

 

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Aaron,

It's not about worrying what they think and react to. It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire. "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone. Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing. The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have. Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants? You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect. Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules. If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under. If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring). I don't care whether I give warnings or not. My job is to enforce rules not coach players. So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer. I think that's is being flexible to the situation. And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC. If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc). If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting. The TD is the one that makes the rules. So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk. Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks. My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that. UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket. Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done. If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me. I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way. Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do. If it is not addressed then no warnings. This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all. But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.

 

If I was coaching and you told my players to not play in a particular spot, I'd probably blow a gasket. There's no rule against where fielders can set up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Also, if he's "almost" not pausing, he's legal, and that's how he's maximizing his advantage. 

 

And it's not OBS until it happens.

 

 

Context Matt. We are talking about younger players that are not well versed in the mechanics yet.  If he is almost not pausing on purpose because he is a seasoned pitcher that knows what he is doing, then that is different.  I'm talking about the kid that is not doing it to gain an advantage but it's pretty obvious he just has sloppy mechanics.

 

I know it's not OBS until it happens.  Have you ever had the 10U kid that stands on 1st base while the ball is rolling to the fence?  I think it's preventive umpiring to let him know after the play that if the runner bumps into him next time he could get called for OBS.  Gets the kid to understand the game and hopefully keeps me from having to call OBS on a 10 year old.

[JaxRolo]

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.
OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.
 

White is legal as long as:
a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones
B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits
C)Both sleeves are equal length
D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

[UMP45]

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.

OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.

 

White is legal as long as:

a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones

B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits

C)Both sleeves are equal length

D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

What does it say in the PBUC book?

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Maybe someone who has one can tell us.

[DVA7130]

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.

OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.

 

White is legal as long as:

a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones

B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits

C)Both sleeves are equal length

D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

What does it say in the PBUC book?

I searched through my copy.

No mention in Section 3 (EQUIPMENT, PLAYERS AND THE PLAYING FIELD) or Section 8 (PITCHING REGULATIONS) No other section is applicable so :shrug:

[Jocko]

This is my last post on this ridiculous topic.

Tournament Directors fill out brackets, collect $, settle protests, and kiss babies.

UICs assign games and are the head of your group.

I've never done a tourney that had both. If our UIC is there, he's either TD or he's calling games. And NO tournament director is going to "make up rules" that I'm gonna follow. Our travel org OWNER told us to get together just to make coaches happy. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. We get together when we NEED to get together. IDGAF what coaches want. If I'm certain of what I saw, I'm not going to placate them just because he wants us to.

Scott....NOONE SAID IGNORE THE OBVIOUS BALKS. I EVEN MENTIONED GRANDMA IN THE STANDS.

[MidAmUmp]

My job on the field is to manage the game and interpret/enforce the rules.

I don't believe I have the right to decide which rules I shall enforce and which I will ignore.

The UIC/TD held meetings with the HCs and umpires before the start of play. Instructions were to call the games under NFHS rules, with a few modifications (mostly involving courtesy runners and continuous lineups). We were specifically told to: enforce balks without warning (but use common sense according to the age of players...who ranged from 10-15). We were told to inspect bats, helmets and catchers gear before EACH game. Nothing was initially said about jewelry, but when somebody asked the question, the TD and UIC disagreed. TD said "let them wear their necklaces as long as they have a breakaway clasp". UIC said "No, I don't want the guys to waste their time inspecting necklaces...either allow them all, or ban them all." They decided to ban them. Every coach and umpire knew that before play began.

I couldn't care less if little Johnny wears his necklace or not...and during a regular season travel game, I'm not picking that booger. But, when we've been given specific instructions to enforce it, how can I ignore?

We were told to inspect bats, helmets and catchers gear. If I'm going to allow a catcher to use headgear that doesn't meet the standard, why bother with the inspection?

Both NFHS and OBR say the pitcher can't wear a glove/mitt that is white or gray. Why would I allow it? And, for the record, I've always believed it's better for ME to police that sort of stuff up BEFORE the other team brings it to my attention.

I worked 12 games over 3 days. Called a total of 2 balks, 1 in 12u, one in 13u. The 13 was the classic 'blew thru the stop' balk, nobody complained about that one. The 12u balk was so obvious there's NO WAY it could have been overlooked. Pitcher got on rubber in wind-up with a runner on first. He started his motion, and when the runner broke for 2nd, pitcher stopped. How can I do anything BUT enforce that penalty?

I work 140-160 games a year, in a part of the country where we don't play much beyond mid April thru July...lots of weekend tournaments. I have to decline as many tournament invites as I accept...so it doesn't appear as tho I've become known as "that guy".

I simply do NOT understand the mind-set that says we can pick-and-choose which rules we're going to enforce, and which we ignore. It confuses players, coaches, parents and is ESPECIALLY confusing to younger umpires. Inconsistency leads to unnecessary conflict, drama and ejections.

Would have been nice if you would have mentioned some of this in your original post. Obviously if your TD or UIC says to call things a certain way, then call it the way they want.

Just curious at how many miles an hour over the speed limit do you think a cop should write a ticket? I suppose if you're going 71 in a 70 he's within the rules to issue you a ticket. Personally, I'm kind of glad they decide to enforce their rules with some common sense.

[MidAmUmp]

I do not hire the umpires or decide who gets sent to do the games but there does seem to be a group of 20 who are there every night. This complex gets the lower end of umpires sent to them. Out of 20 umpires 10 are kids or rookies, 5 are solid umpires I never have to worry about and 5 are horrible umpires who drive me crazy. I have tried to work with them as much as possible but you seem to think I can teach 20 umpires how to umpire with the little time I have to talk to them every night. We have guys who dont even know what a IFF is. I have worked hard with 2 of the kids and they started in t ball and now are doing 12U and doing it good. 

 

Some of you have said "If you came on my field I would leave" but here is the deal. If you are a good umpire I would not have to come on your field to figure out a rule cause you would know it. 

 

I dont micro manage I do what I was asked to do and I think with the group of umpires I started with we have came along way.

Do you not see the irony in you taking exception to guys coming on this message board and telling you how to do your job???

[Replacematt]

 

 

 

 

Scott, l

Preventive umpiring isn't something that should be or needs to be directed from a TD or UIC. It should be an automatic part of your game that you work. I think that you might be too worried about how others (coaches, parents, assigners, TDs) think and react when you're working.

Why would you ask coaches at the plate meeting if they want warnings on balks? They either get them or they don't. Why would they get an option? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Aaron,

It's not about worrying what they think and react to. It's what I think I can justify professionally as an umpire. "Preventive Umpiring" covers many different areas. Most of these you are correct in saying they don't need to be a directive from anyone. Examples would be to remind the fielders if you see them standing in the base path and could potentially obstruct; to tell the catcher where he is setting up could cause him to not get strikes for his pitcher; and if a young pitcher is barely pausing or not quite pausing. The only "worry" I have about what they think is a worry we all have. Why do you shine your shoes and press your pants? You do so because "looking the part" gains you respect. Well what also gains you respect is knowing the rules. If you are being lenient on balks and not calling them and a coach sees one and points it out, he can lose respect for you as a knowledgeable umpire.

I would ask coaches at the plate meeting because that give me the idea of what they are used to playing under. If they are used to getting warnings then we'll go with warnings (I think this would fall under preventive umpiring). I don't care whether I give warnings or not. My job is to enforce rules not coach players. So once again I'm okay with doing whatever the coaches prefer. I think that's is being flexible to the situation. And this is only for circumstances where I have not been given a directive by the TD/UIC. If they say give warnings, then I simply tell the coaches how the warnings are going to work (i.e. one warning per team, one warning per pitcher, etc). If I am told don't give warnings then it may not even come up at the plate meeting. The TD is the one that makes the rules. So going against their directive and doing it my way is extremely unprofessional in my opinion.

As explained in my previous post I was doing an 11U GMB tournament and my partner gave a warning for a fake to 3rd balk. Coach got pissed because this had come up in a previous game he was in and he was told "no warnings" on balks. My partner told the coach he was giving the warning and that was that. UIC was informed and TD blew a gasket. Everyone looked bad because the umpire took it upon himself to legislate the game in a way that the coach had been specifically told would not be done. If it is brought up at the plate meeting and both coaches are in agreement then it's unlikely to come back and bite me. I never give warnings unless both coaches are aware that it's going to be done that way. Sometimes they bring it up at the plate meeting and sometimes I do. If it is not addressed then no warnings. This does not prevent me from doing "preventive umpiring" on pause/no pause or other things that are subjective at all. But if a known balk rule is violated I'm not taking it upon myself to give a warning.

 

If I was coaching and you told my players to not play in a particular spot, I'd probably blow a gasket. There's no rule against where fielders can set up.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Also, if he's "almost" not pausing, he's legal, and that's how he's maximizing his advantage. 

 

And it's not OBS until it happens.

 

 

Context Matt. We are talking about younger players that are not well versed in the mechanics yet.  If he is almost not pausing on purpose because he is a seasoned pitcher that knows what he is doing, then that is different.  I'm talking about the kid that is not doing it to gain an advantage but it's pretty obvious he just has sloppy mechanics.

 

I know it's not OBS until it happens.  Have you ever had the 10U kid that stands on 1st base while the ball is rolling to the fence?  I think it's preventive umpiring to let him know after the play that if the runner bumps into him next time he could get called for OBS.  Gets the kid to understand the game and hopefully keeps me from having to call OBS on a 10 year old.

 

 

Irrelevant. Do your job and let coaches do theirs.

[TheGeneral]

Not to dive in this mess, but I'll throw a couple pennies into the jewelry part of the discussion.

1. Summer league middle school ball where our town frequents for tournaments. Kid dives back to the base. His Livestrong band gets caught on the corner of the bag, completely snapping his wrist. His season was over.

2. Local summer rec league, HS girls. F5 playing shallow. Line drive hits her ear, driving the tiny earring back into the soft spot behind the ear. Her mother had to dig the earring out of her neck on the field.

We 100% enforce no jewelry of any kind.

[immaculate1976]

 

I do not hire the umpires or decide who gets sent to do the games but there does seem to be a group of 20 who are there every night. This complex gets the lower end of umpires sent to them. Out of 20 umpires 10 are kids or rookies, 5 are solid umpires I never have to worry about and 5 are horrible umpires who drive me crazy. I have tried to work with them as much as possible but you seem to think I can teach 20 umpires how to umpire with the little time I have to talk to them every night. We have guys who dont even know what a IFF is. I have worked hard with 2 of the kids and they started in t ball and now are doing 12U and doing it good. 

 

Some of you have said "If you came on my field I would leave" but here is the deal. If you are a good umpire I would not have to come on your field to figure out a rule cause you would know it. 

 

I dont micro manage I do what I was asked to do and I think with the group of umpires I started with we have came along way.

Do you not see the irony in you taking exception to guys coming on this message board and telling you how to do your job???

 

 

Do you not understand that I am told by my boss and by the GM of the complex to do things like I have already posted? You come on here and tell me I should not do things like I do but I am told to do it like that. If you were in my shoes you would do as told also. 

I work hard and in the couple of months I have been there I have got tons of people telling the GM the umpires have been doing alot better and they can see the difference. That is what I care about and that is what makes me proud so I guess I could care less about what others think of me and really glad I will never have to work with some of these mlb umpires we have on here cause I am guessing they are not so great when they are not on a commputer. 

[umpire_scott]

This is my last post on this ridiculous topic.

Tournament Directors fill out brackets, collect $, settle protests, and kiss babies.

UICs assign games and are the head of your group.

I've never done a tourney that had both. If our UIC is there, he's either TD or he's calling games. And NO tournament director is going to "make up rules" that I'm gonna follow. Our travel org OWNER told us to get together just to make coaches happy. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. We get together when we NEED to get together. IDGAF what coaches want. If I'm certain of what I saw, I'm not going to placate them just because he wants us to.

Scott....NOONE SAID IGNORE THE OBVIOUS BALKS. I EVEN MENTIONED GRANDMA IN THE STANDS.

 

I just have to say that you must do different types of tournaments in your area than I do here.  One organization I work for the TD is the owner of the organization.  He promotes the organization and brings the teams in.  He has an assigner that he pays to assign the umpire schedules.  At each site he has a UIC (I use the term loosely as they are more like a site director than anything else).  Whatever he says to enforce I enforce.  He hires me and he pays me.  I'm really lost on your comment that no TD is going to make up rules that I have to follow.  We are talking about how to enforce rules that already exist.  It's his tournament, so if he says no warnings on balks for 9 year olds, why would you take it upon yourself to do it anyway?

[umpstu]

 

 

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.

OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.

 

White is legal as long as:

a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones

B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits

C)Both sleeves are equal length

D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

What does it say in the PBUC book?

 

I searched through my copy.

No mention in Section 3 (EQUIPMENT, PLAYERS AND THE PLAYING FIELD) or Section 8 (PITCHING REGULATIONS) No other section is applicable so

 

It says in Jaska and Roder's book that the sleeves on the pitcher cannot be white or gray. 

[stevis]

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.

OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.

 

White is legal as long as:

a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones

B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits

C)Both sleeves are equal length

D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

FWIW, 1.11 (a) 3 in the LL rulebook has a note prohibiting white long sleeves on pitchers. 

[Rich Ives]

 

 

 

Re: White sleeves...This is one of those made up rules that has stuck and it's wrong.

OBR 1.11 (2) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players...

Any player other than the pitcher may have may have numbers, letters , insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt

There is NOTHING in the rules preventing a pitcher from wearing white sleeves.  

 

So I will add this as a response to any counter argument.

 

White is legal as long as:

a) ALL players that chose to sear undershirts wear white ones

B) Must be solid white. No stripes or frayed edges or slits

C)Both sleeves are equal length

D)No other logos, material signage etc. is present on the pitchers sleeeves

What does it say in the PBUC book?

 

I searched through my copy.

No mention in Section 3 (EQUIPMENT, PLAYERS AND THE PLAYING FIELD) or Section 8 (PITCHING REGULATIONS) No other section is applicable so

 

It says in Jaska and Roder's book that the sleeves on the pitcher cannot be white or gray. 

 

 

They're wrong.  Chisox had them and they were ruled OK.

[Mad Mike]

BRD, Section 570 Uniform: Undershirt Sleeves: Pitcher: Color and Length notes:

 

FED: The pitcher's undershirt sleeves may not be white or gray or have "any white or gray sleeve that extends below the elbow. A vest and coordinating shirt that is worn underneath is viewed as a type of uniform top." (1-4-2; 6-2-1i; 1/4/2a) 

 

NCAA: All undershirt sleeves must be about the same length and of solid color other than white. (1-14d)

 

OBR: All undershirt sleeves must be of a solid color and about the same length. (1.11a-2)

 

Carl Childress notes (Note 557): "Though white undershirt sleeves are not prohibited by rule or official interpretation, most amateur players and coaches using OBR rules believe a pitcher cannot wear them. Lou Pinella in the 2001 playoffs made that complaint. BRD recommends: Short of professional play, decide that a pitcher's white sleeves are "distracting" and have them removed if the opponent's coach complains."

[noumpere]

I will add that white sleeves under the "sleeveless jersey" are ALLOWED by FED and NCAA as part of the uniform (no different than wearing a white uniform top).

[Replacematt]

 

 

I do not hire the umpires or decide who gets sent to do the games but there does seem to be a group of 20 who are there every night. This complex gets the lower end of umpires sent to them. Out of 20 umpires 10 are kids or rookies, 5 are solid umpires I never have to worry about and 5 are horrible umpires who drive me crazy. I have tried to work with them as much as possible but you seem to think I can teach 20 umpires how to umpire with the little time I have to talk to them every night. We have guys who dont even know what a IFF is. I have worked hard with 2 of the kids and they started in t ball and now are doing 12U and doing it good. 

 

Some of you have said "If you came on my field I would leave" but here is the deal. If you are a good umpire I would not have to come on your field to figure out a rule cause you would know it. 

 

I dont micro manage I do what I was asked to do and I think with the group of umpires I started with we have came along way.

Do you not see the irony in you taking exception to guys coming on this message board and telling you how to do your job???

 

 

Do you not understand that I am told by my boss and by the GM of the complex to do things like I have already posted? You come on here and tell me I should not do things like I do but I am told to do it like that. If you were in my shoes you would do as told also. 

I work hard and in the couple of months I have been there I have got tons of people telling the GM the umpires have been doing alot better and they can see the difference. That is what I care about and that is what makes me proud so I guess I could care less about what others think of me and really glad I will never have to work with some of these mlb umpires we have on here cause I am guessing they are not so great when they are not on a commputer. 

 

 

I wouldn't allow myself to be in your shoes. There are many right ways to umpire and supervise umpires, and there are many wrong ways. I am not going to put myself in a situation where I am going to be made to do it the wrong way. If they want someone to do it in a way that undermines their umpires, they can hire someone else next time (and the last time I was a UIC, I did tell the TD exactly that.) Every time I hear of umpires or UICs doing something incorrectly because a tournament wants them to, I think of the immortal Judge Smails: "The world needs ditchdiggers, too." You want to be the guy making bank at tournaments? Do it that way. You want to advance into the college ranks? Get the hell off the tournament circuit. 

 

As for your last comment, you are not in a position to be making that assessment.