IFF

[CentralOhioUmp30]

Bases loaded, 1 out.

Pop up about 10 feet from the box on the third base side. Pitcher and catcher both run to it but neither knew where it was. Hits fair and stays fair. Pitcher picks ball up tags runner advancing to home and steps on third for double play.

We explain to coach that ordinary effort was not made by either pitcher or catcher. Is that correct?

Doesn't seem like that could be right, but don't know how it could be an IFF.

[maven]

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

[Chip]

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

 

Agree with @maven on this. 

 

Here's a question, though. To what extent do you take into account the actual capabilities of the team standing on the field? I was working an early season 10U rec league game earlier this week and was pretty sure that for one of the teams any ball caught in the air would have been a complete accident. There were no popups (both teams seemed mostly content to just watch every pitch and strike out or walk and move around the bases on PB/WP), but I tried to cure the boredom by pondering what I would do if someone decided to take the bat off their shoulders and pop one up (and of course it was the one pitch where 1st and 2nd were actually occupied before the next WP/PB moved them up).

[CentralOhioUmp30]

Well, we f'ed it up then. Damn.

[Replacematt]

 

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

 

Agree with @maven on this. 

 

Here's a question, though. To what extent do you take into account the actual capabilities of the team standing on the field? I was working an early season 10U rec league game earlier this week and was pretty sure that for one of the teams any ball caught in the air would have been a complete accident. There were no popups (both teams seemed mostly content to just watch every pitch and strike out or walk and move around the bases on PB/WP), but I tried to cure the boredom by pondering what I would do if someone decided to take the bat off their shoulders and pop one up (and of course it was the one pitch where 1st and 2nd were actually occupied before the next WP/PB moved them up).

 

 

You don't. You take into account the average players at that level. Err on the side of protecting the offense.

[Chip]

 

 

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

 

Agree with @maven on this. 

 

Here's a question, though. To what extent do you take into account the actual capabilities of the team standing on the field? I was working an early season 10U rec league game earlier this week and was pretty sure that for one of the teams any ball caught in the air would have been a complete accident. There were no popups (both teams seemed mostly content to just watch every pitch and strike out or walk and move around the bases on PB/WP), but I tried to cure the boredom by pondering what I would do if someone decided to take the bat off their shoulders and pop one up (and of course it was the one pitch where 1st and 2nd were actually occupied before the next WP/PB moved them up).

 

 

You don't. You take into account the average players at that level. Err on the side of protecting the offense.

 

 

I agree with protecting the offense. I guess that's where I was getting hung up. Calling IFF would give the defense an out that they probably wouldn't achieve otherwise, given some of the fielding I had been seeing. But that's certainly not a statement that would apply across the board to all teams at that level or even most in that league. 

[conbo61]

Encountered another mythical beast yesterday (3 pitch-inning was the previous).

 

Back-to-back IFF's on consecutive pitches.  Never saw that before.

[Rich Ives]

 

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

 

 To what extent do you take into account the actual capabilities of the team standing on the field?

 

 

You do do that.  But in doing so you base the ruling on what an average player in that age group would be able to do, not the ability of the current player or team.

[Thunderheads]

 

 

The question is not whether an infielder DID make ordinary effort. It's whether the ball COULD be caught with ordinary effort.

If the pop up was high enough, that's an IFF.

 

 To what extent do you take into account the actual capabilities of the team standing on the field?

 

 

You do do that.  But in doing so you base the ruling on what an average player in that age group would be able to do, not the ability of the current player or team.

 

yeah ...what Matt said (post #5)

[maven]

You don't. You take into account the average players at that level. Err on the side of protecting the offense.

For novices who might have missed it, I will add only that Matt's last sentence means: rule it an IFF.

 

It might seem odd that calling the BR out protects the offense, but the purpose of the rule is to protect the offense from a cheap double play.

[Jocko]

Too bad F5 didnt tag R2. You would have had a triple play.

[Sayhey]

Sometimes life is not fair. Sometimes baseball is not fair. Sometimes circumstances screw you. A soft fly ball on the infield can land behind the pitcher and not be an infield fly and can result in a double or triple play. If you do not want this to happen I suggest you hit the ball in the gap.

I think all youth umpires struggle with this one, especially if you work a hot varsity game on Friday night and you are working a 12 year old game on Sunday for beer and gas money.

A couple days ago my partner called an infield fly and I did not have an infield fly. The shortstop dove for the pop up and did not catch it. The high pop up fell behind the mound. "Can be caught with ordinary effort". That's the crux of the matter, isn't it. Judgement call. I agree that it does seem odd to call a batter out to protect his team.

It sounds like what we are agreeing to, with Maven's lead, is that a bad read on a pop up does not mean that it isn't an infield fly. Jaska/Roder says wind is a factor and sun is not. An intentionally dropped infield fly is a live ball. Just throwing that out. Umpire Empire helps me become better umpire again. Thanks!

I have read the rule wrong for 20 years. Embarrassing really. I have always said "it had to be ordinary effort". As Maven points out, "can be caught with ordinary effort". Thanks Maven.

[MadMax]

Bases loaded, 1 out.

Pop up about 10 feet from the box on the third base side. Pitcher and catcher both run to it but neither knew where it was. Hits fair and stays fair. Pitcher picks ball up tags runner advancing to home and steps on third for double play.

We explain to coach that ordinary effort was not made by either pitcher or catcher. Is that correct?

Doesn't seem like that could be right, but don't know how it could be an IFF.

 

One caveat to this... Your first out on the play (second overall) was a _tag_. Even if IFF was called, IFF does not protect baserunners who leave the base of their own (unsure) volition. An IFF is not a dead-ball instance or declaration.