What happens to batter-runner?

[HammerPIAA]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered before..........this just happened in one of our 12U games this past week.  Our league uses NFHS rules.

 

Batter grounds to SS, throw from SS to 1B clearly beats runner but 1B bobbles then drops throw, and then quickly picks up ball after runner has crossed bag.  PU calls runner safe on the bobble/drop.  Runner believes he is out (because ball clearly beat him) but he didnt see the drop and didnt hear the PU call.  1B coach is obviously not paying attention.  Runner turns around from normal overrun of 1B bag and heads to the dugout.  Before he gets to dugout, defensive team realizes what's happening and runs and tags him.  Offensive coach argues that he is safe because he had legally acquired 1B on the safe call.  PU admitted to both coaches that he didnt know what to do, but ultimately made a decision and called the runner out.

 

Whats the correct ruling?  I was not at this game, but I was asked by several parents/coaches because while this was not my game, I do quite a few games in our league and no one (including our UIC) seemed to know the answer.  I told them I wasnt 100% sure but I'm calling the kid out based on 1) being out of the baseline and/or 2) giving himself up (even though he hadn't yet entered the dugout).

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

Clarify for me please, BR gets a walk, after touching first he stands off the base removing his batting gloves. Is the BR liable to be put out?

In FED, the BR is not protected through 1B, only to it.

Yes, he's liable to be put out in FED.

OBR and NCAA, if he runs through 1B and just stands there off the base without immediately returning, I have him liable to be put out. Get back to and stay on the freakin base

 

 

@grayhawk, explain to me why a BR, once acquiring 1B would get off of 1B to take off batting gloves or armor without being granted "Time" first? Why don't they just stand off other bases too while they piddle with equipment?

Bag = safe ... first thing runners are taught

 

 

You are changing the situation.  On your first post, the BR took his gear off on his way back to the base after overrunning.  Now you are saying he's stepping off first to take off his gear.  Very different.  On the first, it would be OOO to call him out unless he's taking a long time.  On the second, he should be called out.

[ALStripes17]

Clarify for me please, BR gets a walk, after touching first he stands off the base removing his batting gloves. Is the BR liable to be put out?

In FED, the BR is not protected through 1B, only to it.

Yes, he's liable to be put out in FED.

OBR and NCAA, if he runs through 1B and just stands there off the base without immediately returning, I have him liable to be put out. Get back to and stay on the freakin base

@grayhawk, explain to me why a BR, once acquiring 1B would get off of 1B to take off batting gloves or armor without being granted "Time" first? Why don't they just stand off other bases too while they piddle with equipment?

Bag = safe ... first thing runners are taught

You are changing the situation. On your first post, the BR took his gear off on his way back to the base after overrunning. Now you are saying he's stepping off first to take off his gear. Very different. On the first, it would be OOO to call him out unless he's taking a long time. On the second, he should be called out.

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

[maven]

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

True. Don't do it.

[ALStripes17]

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

True. Don't do it.

Unlikely to happen, but how do you justify not getting that out?

[grayhawk]

Clarify for me please, BR gets a walk, after touching first he stands off the base removing his batting gloves. Is the BR liable to be put out?

In FED, the BR is not protected through 1B, only to it.

Yes, he's liable to be put out in FED.

OBR and NCAA, if he runs through 1B and just stands there off the base without immediately returning, I have him liable to be put out. Get back to and stay on the freakin base

@grayhawk, explain to me why a BR, once acquiring 1B would get off of 1B to take off batting gloves or armor without being granted "Time" first? Why don't they just stand off other bases too while they piddle with equipment?

Bag = safe ... first thing runners are taught

You are changing the situation. On your first post, the BR took his gear off on his way back to the base after overrunning. Now you are saying he's stepping off first to take off his gear. Very different. On the first, it would be OOO to call him out unless he's taking a long time. On the second, he should be called out.

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

I wasn't talking about a walk in Fed.

[ALStripes17]

Clarify for me please, BR gets a walk, after touching first he stands off the base removing his batting gloves. Is the BR liable to be put out?

In FED, the BR is not protected through 1B, only to it. Yes, he's liable to be put out in FED. OBR and NCAA, if he runs through 1B and just stands there off the base without immediately returning, I have him liable to be put out. Get back to and stay on the freakin base

@grayhawk, explain to me why a BR, once acquiring 1B would get off of 1B to take off batting gloves or armor without being granted "Time" first? Why don't they just stand off other bases too while they piddle with equipment? Bag = safe ... first thing runners are taught

You are changing the situation. On your first post, the BR took his gear off on his way back to the base after overrunning. Now you are saying he's stepping off first to take off his gear. Very different. On the first, it would be OOO to call him out unless he's taking a long time. On the second, he should be called out.

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

I wasn't talking about a walk in Fed.

That was what my entire response was about! My response was to questions by blue23 and richives Edited to add: Regarding OBR and NCAA not "immediately returning," my defn of 'immediate' is very liberal in that sense. Theyre making their way back to 1B in some way, no issues.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clarify for me please, BR gets a walk, after touching first he stands off the base removing his batting gloves. Is the BR liable to be put out?

In FED, the BR is not protected through 1B, only to it.

Yes, he's liable to be put out in FED.

OBR and NCAA, if he runs through 1B and just stands there off the base without immediately returning, I have him liable to be put out. Get back to and stay on the freakin base

 

 

@grayhawk, explain to me why a BR, once acquiring 1B would get off of 1B to take off batting gloves or armor without being granted "Time" first? Why don't they just stand off other bases too while they piddle with equipment?

Bag = safe ... first thing runners are taught

 

You are changing the situation. On your first post, the BR took his gear off on his way back to the base after overrunning. Now you are saying he's stepping off first to take off his gear. Very different. On the first, it would be OOO to call him out unless he's taking a long time. On the second, he should be called out.

 

FED explicitly defines the BR overrunning 1B on a base on balls. Defense gets their out if they make the tag

 

I wasn't talking about a walk in Fed.

 

That was what my entire response was about! My response was to questions by blue23 and richives

 

 

I see - then we are in agreement. 

[cp9]

Yes. The base on balls award in FED is only TO the base, not through it.

If anyone has CB cite, please help as I do not have my books with me.

 

 

8.2.7 . . . A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return 

without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. A player who is awarded 

first base on a base on balls does not have this right. 

 

[blue23ll]

 

Yes. The base on balls award in FED is only TO the base, not through it.

If anyone has CB cite, please help as I do not have my books with me.

 

 

8.2.7 . . . A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return 

without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. A player who is awarded 

first base on a base on balls does not have this right. 

 

 

In other words, a BR awarded first base on a base on balls is not protected from liability of being put out for over running first.

[Jocko]

You have to wonder how well the PU sold the call that both the BR and 1B coach missed it. If I'm working a game like that solo and therefore making a non-obvious call while trailing the play, I'm going to be extra loud and forceful in my call -- probably belting out "safe! on the bobble! safe!" or something like that to make sure that everyone knows and understands the call. 

 

I don't want to get an out for abandonment on a play like that, especially at 12U or lower, if I can avoid it.

First, I don't work solo if I can at all help it.

2) I make my calls the same regardless of age/skill/whatever. It was obvious to those paying attention what the call was.

C ) I'll take an out anyway I get it. Apply the rules fairly and evenly. Take what THEY give you. Don't manufacture, but don't miss an opportunity to get the call right.

[cp9]

 

 

Yes. The base on balls award in FED is only TO the base, not through it.

If anyone has CB cite, please help as I do not have my books with me.

 

 

8.2.7 . . . A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return 

without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. A player who is awarded 

first base on a base on balls does not have this right. 

 

 

In other words, a BR awarded first base on a base on balls is not protected from liability of being put out for over running first.

 

Correct.  I see it at least twice a year in games that play under FED rules.  When I was a coach, I instructed my F2 to throw to F3 after a BB when the BR was sprinting down to first.  I would tell the umpire beforehand that we would do that so (1) they wouldn't be caught off guard and (2) to make sure they knew the rule.  Got quite a few cheap outs that way.  I feel kinda bad about it now.....

[Richvee]

 

 

 

Yes. The base on balls award in FED is only TO the base, not through it.

If anyone has CB cite, please help as I do not have my books with me.

 

 

8.2.7 . . . A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return 

without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. A player who is awarded 

first base on a base on balls does not have this right. 

 

 

In other words, a BR awarded first base on a base on balls is not protected from liability of being put out for over running first.

 

Correct.  I see it at least twice a year in games that play under FED rules.  When I was a coach, I instructed my F2 to throw to F3 after a BB when the BR was sprinting down to first.  I would tell the umpire beforehand that we would do that so (1) they wouldn't be caught off guard and (2) to make sure they knew the rule.  Got quite a few cheap outs that way.  I feel kinda bad about it now.....

 

No you don't.