Throw kicked into DBT

[Richvee]

FED frosh. game. I'm PU. Bases empty. Batter hits a fly down the RF line, partner goes out for fair/foul, catch/no catch. I've got the batter runner. Ball falls fair. I'm at 2nd for what looks like a play that's going to develop there. As f9 throws to 2nd, BR is between 1st and 2nd.  F9 airmails the throw to 2nd, and it's rolling towards the LF foul line  about 20 feet behind 3rd base. DBT is about 10-15 feet past the foul line. F7 comes running in to try to stop the ball before it heads into DBT. He slides, and makes contact with the ball, and the ball rolls into DBT. Runner is on his between 2nd & 3rd when F7 contacts the ball. I call time, and award BR home. (2 bases from the time of touch).

 

Was this correct? Does it matter that I believe the thrown ball would have gone out of play even if F7 never got to the ball?( in which case BR would be awarded 3rd. 2 from time of throw.)  I ruled once F7 made contact, the award is now 2 bases from time of contact. 

 

I keep thinking about FED's ruling on a wild pitch that is heading into DBT and the catcher kicks it. If the umpire thinks the ball would have gone out of play without the kick, award is one base  TOP. If the pitch has stopped and F2 then supplies the impetus for the ball to go out, the award is 2 base time of kick. Would this ruling apply to thrown ball heading out of play? 

[Replacematt]

FED frosh. game. I'm PU. Bases empty. Batter hits a fly down the RF line, partner goes out for fair/foul, catch/no catch. I've got the batter runner. Ball falls fair. I'm at 2nd for what looks like a play that's going to develop there. As f9 throws to 2nd, BR is between 1st and 2nd.  F9 airmails the throw to 2nd, and it's rolling towards the LF foul line  about 20 feet behind 3rd base. DBT is about 10-15 feet past the foul line. F7 comes running in to try to stop the ball before it heads into DBT. He slides, and makes contact with the ball, and the ball rolls into DBT. Runner is on his between 2nd & 3rd when F7 contacts the ball. I call time, and award BR home. (2 bases from the time of touch).

 

Was this correct? Does it matter that I believe the thrown ball would have gone out of play even if F7 never got to the ball?( in which case BR would be awarded 3rd. 2 from time of throw.)  I ruled once F7 made contact, the award is now 2 bases from time of contact. 

 

I keep thinking about FED's ruling on a wild pitch that is heading into DBT and the catcher kicks it. If the umpire thinks the ball would have gone out of play without the kick, award is one base  TOP. If the pitch has stopped and F2 then supplies the impetus for the ball to go out, the award is 2 base time of kick. Would this ruling apply to thrown ball heading out of play? 

 

Yes.

 

That being said, give the benefit of the doubt to the offense.

 

Here's an example. If the throw was high, but ticked off of F5's glove, you'd have no doubt of where to put them, right? 2 bases, time of throw. The same principle applies: F5 did not make that ball go out of play.

[BalkHawk]

The timing for starting base awards does indeed depend on which fielder applied the impetus that caused the ball to go into dead ball territory.

Did your partner rotate home?

[Jocko]

@BalkHawk - Did your partner rotate home? 

I would hope not.

[Replacematt]

@BalkHawk - Did your partner rotate home? 

I would hope not.

 

Why not?

[UMP45]

@BalkHawk - Did your partner rotate home? 

I would hope not.

Because bases were empty. BU has BR to 3rd.

[LMSANS]

Look at the OP...BU went out on the trouble ball.  He should be rotating to home after the throw.

[scrounge]

 

@BalkHawk - Did your partner rotate home? 

I would hope not.

Because bases were empty. BU has BR to 3rd.

 

 

By the book? No he doesn't.

[Dash Riprock]

 

Because bases were empty. BU has BR to 3rd.

 

The BU went out on the ball.  The PU has the BR to 3rd.  He has him at the plate too unless and until the BU gets there.

[maven]

FED mechanics, if anyone besides Ohio uses them, changed (this year?). Once BU goes out, he stays out. PU has the play at any base.

 

For the OP, I agree with Matt: you must rule on whether the "kick" was the cause of the ball going OOP, or whether it was merely a deflection. The answer to that will determine TOT, and thus the proper award.

[grayhawk]

FED mechanics, if anyone besides Ohio uses them, changed (this year?). Once BU goes out, he stays out. PU has the play at any base.

 

For the OP, I agree with Matt: you must rule on whether the "kick" was the cause of the ball going OOP, or whether it was merely a deflection. The answer to that will determine TOT, and thus the proper award.

 

Not according to the 2013-14 Fed Umpires Manual.  2-Man Mechanics, Page 45:

 

Go out on fair/foul or catch/no catch situations down the right field line, getting an angle if possible.  Be ready to return to take the play at the plate, since U1 has the bases behind you.

[Richvee]

The timing for starting base awards does indeed depend on which fielder applied the impetus that caused the ball to go into dead ball territory.

Did your partner rotate home?

My partner was rotating home.  He was about at the 45 foot line between home and 1st when the ball went OOP. Had the ball stayed in play I'd assume he would have called me off and had the play at the plate. Hey, it was sub varsity, I was pleased as hell I had a partner going out for fair/foul, trouble ball and knows mechanics! It's rare I get partners with enough mechanics knowledge to get rotations right. 

 

As for my call awarding BR home. It was real close. DBT was a chalk line. If nobody touches it, it stops rolling probably 2-3 feet on either side of the line. It was rolling like a golf putt about 5-6 feet from DBT when F7 slid into it and knocked it out of play. So I judged that F7's kick was the reason for the ball to go OOP. 

[Dash Riprock]

Sounds to me like you got it right.  Good job.