What is more universally accepted

[Txump10]

With R1 ball hit to F6, F6 bobbles the ball and makes the throw to first. Should plate umpire be rotating to third to take the runner rounding second, or should PU notice no possible INT and move to the line for pulled foot, swipe tag? Either way U1 is left high and dry somewhere. What do ya got?

[tjwoelfel13]

I'd watch the runner rounding second.

[CricketChapman]

Rotate to third.

[guyinaredhat]

Not on the infield.   No rotation if the ball stays on the infield.  

 

You should be moving up past the plate 1st base side to watch for interference on the force play at 2nd, and then watch for pulled foot swipe tag at 1st. 

 

As BU I pregame that my partners should not rotate on a ball that stays in the infield.   I also let my partners know when I am PU that I won't be rotating on a ball that stays on the infield.   

[CricketChapman]

PBUC's 2-Man Manual states PU should swing out toward third base and move toward third "in case the runner originally on 1st should attempt 3rd on the play, in which case the play at 3rd base would belong to the plate umpire.

Only if the ball is slow roller up the first base line will PU not be responsible for the play at 3rd.

[wingman3110]

As PU be on your way to 3B for possible play there. 

[johnnyg08]

BU has both calls.

[scrounge]

As I recall, this is a difference between FED and PBUC. Fed changed it 2 yrs ago IIRC where BU has both calls in the infield. So for a Fed game, what I would do is clear the catcher on the 3B side (easier, habit, stay away from a possible catcher move) to watch a potential FSPR at 2B or any other odd stuff, then drift back to point of plate to help with pulled foot if you can, watch the touch at 2B, get a good look even if a long-distance one for the play at 3B strictly as a backup in case something really weird happens to BU or he can't make or forgets about play at 3B. Also leaves you in position to handle overthrow at 1B should it happen.

 

OBR or non-Fed game? Rotate on up.

[johnnyg08]

Whatever you do, make sure you pre game this rotation/non-rotation. If we work together, I'm not rotating up.

[Thunderheads]

Whatever you do, make sure you pre game this rotation/non-rotation. If we work together, I'm not rotating up.

so the CCA says don't rotate to third johnny?

[JaxRolo]

No rotation on ball hit to infield.

Better pregame it if for some reason you feel compelled to go to 3rd.

[wingman3110]

Whatever you do, make sure you pre game this rotation/non-rotation. If we work together, I'm not rotating up.

 

Not athletic enough to get from PoP to 3B?

[johnnyg08]

Well, there are some instances where CCA says PU should rotate.

 

Here's one:

 

R1

Double play ground ball to third base, with a throw to 2B, followed by a throw to first base.

 

PU:  moves toward the third base side of the pitcher's mound to assist U1 on the slide at 2B by R1.  If R1 is out, PU stays with the slide to ensure the slide was legal then turns toward 1B for secondary responsibility on a swipe tag/pulled foot at 1B.  If R1 is safe and attempts to advance to third, PU has responsibility for a play at 3B if ball and runner come together.  PU is responsible for all plays at home.

[wingman3110]

Well, there are some instances where CCA says PU should rotate.

 

Here's one:

 

R1

Double play ground ball to third base, with a throw to 2B, followed by a throw to first base.

 

PU:  moves toward the third base side of the pitcher's mound to assist U1 on the slide at 2B by R1.  If R1 is out, PU stays with the slide to ensure the slide was legal then turns toward 1B for secondary responsibility on a swipe tag/pulled foot at 1B.  If R1 is safe and attempts to advance to third, PU has responsibility for a play at 3B if ball and runner come together.  PU is responsible for all plays at home.

So how is that different than a double play ball hit to F6?

[johnnyg08]

 

Whatever you do, make sure you pre game this rotation/non-rotation. If we work together, I'm not rotating up.

 

Not athletic enough to get from PoP to 3B?

 

 

 

Nice incorrect assumption.  

 

Plenty athletic sir.  I'm going to be most helpful to my partner on the first base line and also do what my mechanic manual tell me to do instead of making up my own mechanics.  I trust the authors of the CCA manual to know a lot more than me when it comes to positioning.

 

Here another instance where my manual tell me to stay home as PU...it has NOTHING to do with being athletic or not.

 

R2

 

Action on the field:  Ground ball to F6 with a throw to first base; R2 advances toward third base on the throw and draws a throw to third base.

 

PU:  Observes the action at 1B to assist on pulled foot or swipe tag by the first baseman and then returns to the plate for any play there.

 

U1:  Moves into the best position to rule on all plays at 1b, 2b, or 3b

[bam]

We don't follow CCA.  Our association explicitly states BU has both calls. 

 

With 2 umpires, you've got to give somewhere.  Either PU is watching for RLI and OI at 2d or he's on the move toward third.  Which scenario is more likely? 

[johnnyg08]

 

Well, there are some instances where CCA says PU should rotate.

 

Here's one:

 

R1

Double play ground ball to third base, with a throw to 2B, followed by a throw to first base.

 

PU:  moves toward the third base side of the pitcher's mound to assist U1 on the slide at 2B by R1.  If R1 is out, PU stays with the slide to ensure the slide was legal then turns toward 1B for secondary responsibility on a swipe tag/pulled foot at 1B.  If R1 is safe and attempts to advance to third, PU has responsibility for a play at 3B if ball and runner come together.  PU is responsible for all plays at home.

So how is that different than a double play ball hit to F6?

 

 

It's probably not different.  I think the reason is because of PU's initial position on this type of play, make it a no brainer to make a call at 3B.  I'll post the picture...which should clear things up.

[johnnyg08]

We don't follow CCA.  Our association explicitly states BU has both calls. 

 

With 2 umpires, you've got to give somewhere.  Either PU is watching for RLI and OI at 2d or he's on the move toward third.  Which scenario is more likely? 

 

Locally we don't rotate either.  Lots of wasted movement by PU for a very unlikely play.  If BU knows what he's doing he should have no problem taking both ends of this.

[johnnyg08]

Here's the graphic

[wingman3110]

My not athletic enough comment was sarcastic. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

[wingman3110]

 

 

Whatever you do, make sure you pre game this rotation/non-rotation. If we work together, I'm not rotating up.

 

Not athletic enough to get from PoP to 3B?

 

 

 

Nice incorrect assumption.  

 

Plenty athletic sir.  I'm going to be most helpful to my partner on the first base line and also do what my mechanic manual tell me to do instead of making up my own mechanics.  I trust the authors of the CCA manual to know a lot more than me when it comes to positioning.

 

Here another instance where my manual tell me to stay home as PU...it has NOTHING to do with being athletic or not.

 

R2

 

Action on the field:  Ground ball to F6 with a throw to first base; R2 advances toward third base on the throw and draws a throw to third base.

 

PU:  Observes the action at 1B to assist on pulled foot or swipe tag by the first baseman and then returns to the plate for any play there.

 

U1:  Moves into the best position to rule on all plays at 1b, 2b, or 3b

 

Nobody is rotating to 3B as PU with a R2. The original question was with R1.

[Mike Prince]

There's still a lot the PU can keep track of in the OP scenario without a rotation to 3B.  I am in the camp that BU has everything on this play.  That's how I will pre-game it when I have bases (I have everything) and when I have plate this is the starting assumption until my BU partner tells me he wants to handle it differently.

[JHSump]

Short summary of what Jim Evans, Maximizing the Two-Umpire System says on this:

 

With R1:

a) Ground ball up the 1B line, PU clears F2 to the left, moves up the 1B line, renders decision on fair/foul, watches for swipe tags, pulled foot at 1B.  BU has play at 1B.  BU has play at 3B, if one occurs.

b) Ground ball up the 3B line, PU clears F2 to left, moves up 3B line, renders decision on fair/foul. continues to move up line for taking possible play at 3B. If play develops at 3B, PU lets BU know he has the play.

c) All other ground balls to IF that do not require PU on either line, PU moves up toward 3B to take possible play at 3B.

[noumpere]

With R1 ball hit to F6, F6 bobbles the ball and makes the throw to first. Should plate umpire be rotating to third to take the runner rounding second, or should PU notice no possible INT and move to the line for pulled foot, swipe tag?

Yes.

 

It depends on what mechanics your group uses, (and what you and your partner agree to if you are allowed to change them).  The mechanics your group uses probably depends on which play the guy-who-is-in-charge-of-determining-the-mechanics got burned on the last time out.

 

FWIW, I prefer PU to rotate to third only when the batted ball goes to the outfield.

[johnnyg08]

Short summary of what Jim Evans, Maximizing the Two-Umpire System says on this:

 

With R1:

a) Ground ball up the 1B line, PU clears F2 to the left, moves up the 1B line, renders decision on fair/foul, watches for swipe tags, pulled foot at 1B.  BU has play at 1B.  BU has play at 3B, if one occurs.

b) Ground ball up the 3B line, PU clears F2 to left, moves up 3B line, renders decision on fair/foul. continues to move up line for taking possible play at 3B. If play develops at 3B, PU lets BU know he has the play.

c) All other ground balls to IF that do not require PU on either line, PU moves up toward 3B to take possible play at 3B.

 

Thanks for posting the Maximizing piece.  I forgot about that one!