Rattle in the Bat

[Mad Mike]

Several of our Association members had a debate about a potential illegal bat. Any rulings would be appreciated based on NFHS rule set:

 

SITUATION: Top of the 6th, two outs, runners on second and third. Batter walked. As he went to first the catcher said "That bat rattles".The umpire went and picked up the bat and shook it. There was a slight rattle like there was something loose inside. The umpire called the batter out for using an illegal bat and restricted the coach to the dugout.

 

The umpire noted the batter did not foul off any balls during the at bat. Additionally, the bat did not get thrown hard to the ground on the walk. There did not appear to be any alteration done to the bat.

 

________

 

The main rules looked at here were 1-3-5 and 7-4-1a, but it still did not seem clear enough.

 

So, the question(s) are, is a rattle inside the bat enough, by itself to judge the bat illegal?

 

Or could/should the umpire simply remove the bat from play at that point and be within the rule(s)?

 

 

[maven]

The missing info from the situation is whether the bat contacted the ball during the batter's time at bat (say, on a foul ball). If so, then I'd employ the exception and rule that the bat became illegal during the at bat. Remove the bat from play and play on.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like he came to the plate with an illegal bat and should be penalized accordingly.

[Replacematt]

This is not an illegal bat.

 

This is a broken bat and is removed without penalty. 1-3-5.

[sdix00]

• NFHS - 4-1-3b, 1-3-5, 7-4-1a
• B1 enters the box - Remove bat, B1 is out (7-4-1a), HC restricted
• Subsequent offenses - Remove bat, B1 is out, (Acting) HC is Ejected
• Altered bat = Illegal bat. No other distinction or penalty for altered bat.
• All Codes Offense has the option to take the result of the play in place of calling B1 out. No code (PONY, LL, NFHS) offers a distinction between illegal vs altered bats. Treat them the same.
• There IS A DIFFERENCE between an illegal bat vs a defective bat. Defective bats are simply removed. If they re-enter, treat as illegal.
• I keep a cheet sheet on this one so I enforce it properly on whatever field I am on. http://thesitch.postach.io/illegal-bat-the-sitch

[bam]

Declaring batter and and restricting the coach is OOO, IMHO.

[blue23ll]

Just remove the defective bat from play.

[Lala]

Just remove the defective bat from play.

 

I would agree with this. But throughout the AB while the batter is taking practice swings and hitting the bat to the plate nothing was heard?

[JaxRolo]

OOO!!!! NOT illegal.

It's only a rattle. Remove it!

[Rich Ives]

 

Just remove the defective bat from play.

 

I would agree with this. But throughout the AB while the batter is taking practice swings and hitting the bat to the plate nothing was heard?

 

 

Most batters do not hit the bat on the plate.

[Jimurray]

Just remove the defective bat from play.

 

I would agree with this. But throughout the AB while the batter is taking practice swings and hitting the bat to the plate nothing was heard?

Might the type of bat I had a year or two ago. It had internal rings which could come loose randomly on a swing or a hit. Then you might hear a rattle. The fix according to the interweb was to pop it on the ground and reseat the ring. I wouldn't allow the bat to come back in the game.

[Replacematt]

I'm going to have to change my original answer, not because I want to, but because FED screwed the pooch on an interpretation again...at least there's a little gray in this one.

 

SITUATION 16: Following a home run, the catcher picks up the bat, shakes it and hands it to the home plate umpire stating that the bat rattles. The home plate umpire verifies that the bat does rattle. The defensive coach wants the bat declared to be illegal and the appropriate penalties imposed. RULING: Per Rule 1-3-2a-3, “Each legal wood, aluminum or composite bat shall be free of rattles, dents, burrs, cracks and sharp edges.†A bat that has a rattle is an illegal bat. A player who uses one is subject to Rule 7-4-1 and his head coach will be subject to Rule 4-1-3b. The batter would be out and the head coach restricted/ejected. If the plate umpire did not notice the bat having a rattle prior to the at-bat, it should be assumed that the bat became illegal during the contact with the pitch and should not impose the penalties. The home run will count and the bat will be removed from further use in the game. (1-3-2-2a-3; 4-1-3b; 7-4-1)

[Mad Mike]

Matt,

 

Your post is great information. I found the rule reference you mentioned on page 10 of the rule book. However, please let me know where this Situation you quoted was taken from. Thanks.

[Replacematt]

Matt,

 

Your post is great information. I found the rule reference you mentioned on page 10 of the rule book. However, please let me know where this Situation you quoted was taken from. Thanks.

 

This year's interpretations on Arbiter.

[UmpJM]

Mad Mike,

 

The bat was damaged when the batter dropped it to fulfill his award of 1B.

 

Remove the bat and play on.

 

dix,

 

While your statement may be true for the codes enumerated (I have no idea and am willing to "stipulate" that your statement is correct), as a general statement it is not true.

 

JM

[noumpere]

 

Matt,

 

Your post is great information. I found the rule reference you mentioned on page 10 of the rule book. However, please let me know where this Situation you quoted was taken from. Thanks.

 

This year's interpretations on Arbiter.

 

They are also on the NFHS site for those who cant get to Arbiter.

 

And, although the interp is from this year, it has been listed before (if not the exact same situation, the same result -- if you don't know it was illegal when used, just remove it).

[maven]

The bat was damaged when the batter dropped it to fulfill his award of 1B.

 

Remove the bat and play on.

 

Oooh, good one.

 

Want to join my football crew and not throw a bunch of flags this fall?

[UmpJM]

maven,

 

I will give your generous and flattering offer due consideration. 

 

JM

[bam]

Football officiating supports UmpJM's position rather than diminishing it. 

 

You football guys could literally flag every play for some technical violation of the rules, yet you don't.  Why?  Because you would eff up the effing game!  That's why.

 

There are 3 questions you've got to ask yourself before you impose penalties, no matter what sport you're doing. 

 

1.  Did it impact the play?

2.  Did everyone see it?

3.  Was it a flagrant offense?  In other words, was it something everyone should know NOT to do?

 

At least, those are the 3 I ask myself.  Seriously - can you ask more than 3 questions before you have to make a call?

 

If the answer to any of those three is "yes", impose the penalty.

 

If no, make sure it doesn't become obvious.

 

Remove the effing bat.  Please.

[bleacher_bum]

Football officiating supports UmpJM's position rather than diminishing it. 

 

You football guys could literally flag every play for some technical violation of the rules, yet you don't.  Why?  Because you would eff up the effing game!  That's why.

 

There are 3 questions you've got to ask yourself before you impose penalties, no matter what sport you're doing. 

 

1.  Did it impact the play?

2.  Did everyone see it?

3.  Was it a flagrant offense?  In other words, was it something everyone should know NOT to do?

 

At least, those are the 3 I ask myself.  Seriously - can you ask more than 3 questions before you have to make a call?

 

If the answer to any of those three is "yes", impose the penalty.

 

If no, make sure it doesn't become obvious.

 

Remove the effing bat.  Please.

Biggest question I ask is "Did a player gain an unfair advantage?" .   You're very correct about being able to call a penalty on most plays (basketball even more so).  

[UmpJM]

The only sport I officiate is baseball. (OK, I also volunteer my time to officiate at an annual charity softball tournament - the 16" variety - with teams from the area fire departments. But that's a story for another time.)

 

Quite a few of the guys in my umpire association do other sports, primarily basketball and football.

 

After our various association get togethers, stories from other sports regularly pop up. The football ones pertinent to the point maven and bam make go something like this....

 

Bill had to move away because he changed jobs, so we had to add a new guy to our crew. We decided we'd add Jeff. We're getting ready to do our first game with Jeff, and Tom says, "Hey Jeff. Nice flag. Mind if I take a look-see?" And then Tom won't give it back. Jeff's freakin' a little, and suspects Tom is just messin' with him, but he's feeling a little uncomfortable. Finally, we're getting ready to blow the whistle and Jeff says, "Hey Tom, funs fun and all, but I need my flag." Tom looks him right in the eye and says, "You may think you do, but you really don't." and leaves him standing there as he jogs off to his position. Hey, new guys gotta' learn.

 

Or....

 

"Oh yeah, Fred (an "experienced" official) carries like SEVEN flags, right Fred? I mean, you could have holding, then an illegal block below the waist, then there's a facemask, then after the whistle a couple of players get a little chippy over the facemask. I mean you gotta' be PREPARED, right Fred? Or are you down to six flags this year?..."

 

The stories are apocryphal, but I believe the point is newer football officials tend to "overcall" the game rather than letting the game call itself to the extent possible.

 

I don't "do" football, so maybe I've got that wrong.

 

A few guys do volleyball. They say it's like stealing money. One of my sons played volleyball through high school. I was stunned by a couple of things I observed. The most memorable was the very first time I saw the official give the "Didn't get a good look, so we're going to have a do-over" mechanic. (No, I am not making this up.) Though the first time I'd ever seen it (I will not describe it so you can experience the same shock and awe I did should you ever see it), it was immediately clear what his "call" was. I couldn't believe it. Try that on a 3-2 nutcutter in the bottom of the sixth with 2 outs, the bases loaded, and a tie score, you'd have a freakin' riot on your hands. And the coaches are SO nice. You even STAND UP out of your little courtside chair and you get severely reprimanded. I never saw one do it twice, so I don't really know what happens then, but it can't be good for the coach.

 

I'll admit, now that the NFHS has officially sanctioned bass fishing as an interscholastic competition, I'm kind of intrigued. While I've never been a "big" fisherman, I have certainly fished. Oceans a handful of times (Pacific, Atlantic, Gulf), more frequently lakes and rivers. I find it a nice way to spend some time with friends and children, and sometimes just me & nature. And nothing tastes quite so satisfying as a freshly caught, cleaned, and cooked fish when you did it all yourself. I digress.

 

I haven't read the rule book, but I figure it's gotta' go something like this. You go out on a lake in a boat, sit there and drink beer (I am not sure what the protocol is here. Does each school bring you a six-pack, or are you expected to bring your own? Don't know, but either way, I'm OK with it), and "observe". Anybody gets out of line, whatever that might mean within the context of FED bass fishing, you reprimand them "per book". Anyone gets "lippy" with you, you eject them - from their boat. Now they've got to swim (or wade, depending on the lake) back to shore. I have no idea what the pay is, but it sounds like a pretty sweet gig to me.

 

I love how you can get insight into how to officiate one sport from principles espoused in another. Which is all I really meant to say.

 

JM

[refump10]

Hey, you could write off your boat as part of officiating equipment!  I'm going to the dealer now!

[maven]

And the coaches are SO nice. You even STAND UP out of your little courtside chair and you get severely reprimanded. I never saw one do it twice, so I don't really know what happens then, but it can't be good for the coach.

 

Volleyball coaches may stand during a dead ball.

 

But it's true, they are nice. In my state, there were no coach or players in the 2012 season. FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.

 

They also tend to be much hotter than baseball coaches.

[noumpere]

 

. In my state, there were no coach or players in the 2012 season. FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.

 

 

That must have made for quick (or infinitely long) games.  Or else you're missing a word.

[JaxRolo]

 

 

. In my state, there were no coach or players in the 2012 season. FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.

 

 

That must have made for quick (or infinitely long) games.  Or else you're missing a word.

 

No wonder there were no ejections!  Nobody to get ejected!