Interference?

[Guest Eastside Coach]

Here is the situation. Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. This a tournament game at the 12U level.  A ball is hit to second. The contact play is gone so the runner at third goes. The ball beats him to the plate, but he trucks our catcher who holds on the ball but is down with the wind knocked out of him.  Runners advance to third and second on the play. 

 

Home plate up, loudly and forcefully calls timeout and declares: "Runner at the plate is out on the play and ejected by tournament rule (indeed there is to be be no "malicious contact"). That is in everyone's rules, and there is no argument. He then says because of that rule the play at the plate becomes interference on the runner and he puts the runners back on second and first.  He was a very young ump and made the call immediately and forcefully. I just wonder if he knew the right call or just did a great job of fooling us all. 

[Richvee]

Time is out as soon as the MC occurs. Others runners return to last base legally touched at the time of the interference, more than likely 2nd base here. Doubtful R1 had reached 3rd before the play at the plate. Your "very young ump" was spot on. 

[mstaylor]

Sounds like he nailed it

[Scratch Franzeo]

Good call

[Dannytheman]

I'm thinking the Young ump should get an extra free hot dog!! He called this perfect!

[Stan W.]

your very young umpire was very much correct............

 

 

 

and....

 

the only way you can be "fooled" by a very young umpire or any umpire for that matter......is to continue to not know the rules of the game ......hopefully this spurs you and your staff into an active study of the rulebook..

 

a coach has 4 weapons....his offense, his defense, his strategies and the rules.........a staff with less rules knowledge is giving up a legal advantage.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Stan W.
clarity

[spiritump]

Here is the situation. Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. This a tournament game at the 12U level.  A ball is hit to second. The contact play is gone so the runner at third goes. The ball beats him to the plate, but he trucks our catcher who holds on the ball but is down with the wind knocked out of him.  Runners advance to third and second on the play. 

 

Home plate up, loudly and forcefully calls timeout and declares: "Runner at the plate is out on the play and ejected by tournament rule (indeed there is to be be no "malicious contact"). That is in everyone's rules, and there is no argument. He then says because of that rule the play at the plate becomes interference on the runner and he puts the runners back on second and first.  He was a very young ump and made the call immediately and forcefully. I just wonder if he knew the right call or just did a great job of fooling us all. 

 

 

You ask if the "young"umpire got the call right--if you are going to coach why don't you have a rule book??

[JaxRolo]

Agree with the call. I also agree with Stan the coaches that study rule books have a big advantage. Coaches should attend umpires rule clinics so they understand why we do what we do.

[Scratch Franzeo]

Agree with the call.

I also agree with Stan the coaches that study rule books have a big advantage.

Coaches should attend umpires rule clinics so they understand why we do what we do.

Agreed. I was fortunate enough to run into my LL coach during my first year of umpiring. He explained that going to umpire training gave him a definite advantage over the other coaches in the league.

[BT_Blue]

Darn straight. The worst coaches to umpire for are the ones that also know the rules. They tend to be spot on about just about everything. (And by worst I mean we can not let our guard down for one second.) These teams also tend to be the best coached and know how to use the rules in their favor.

[Thunderheads]

Here is the situation. Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. This a tournament game at the 12U level.  A ball is hit to second. The contact play is gone so the runner at third goes. The ball beats him to the plate, but he trucks our catcher who holds on the ball but is down with the wind knocked out of him.  Runners advance to third and second on the play. 

 

Home plate up, loudly and forcefully calls timeout and declares: "Runner at the plate is out on the play and ejected by tournament rule (indeed there is to be be no "malicious contact"). That is in everyone's rules, and there is no argument. He then says because of that rule the play at the plate becomes interference on the runner and he puts the runners back on second and first.  He was a very young ump and made the call immediately and forcefully. I just wonder if he knew the right call or just did a great job of fooling us all. 

Dear Eastside Coach;

This "young umpire" didn't fool anyone, however, .... has probably made you feel like a fool for asking.   At 12U you should know this stuff!   The umpire, as others have said ' NAILED THIS CALL' by the book.  

 

Respectfully, .... know the rule book, and the applications of the rules.... it can only make you a better coach.   Hopefully you and/or your staff didn't make a scene and argue with this kid.  You can't argue if you don't know/aren't aware of what's going on, right?

[Guest eastsidecoach]

I know the rule quite well....I didn't express myself well in saying he "fooled" anyone.  He made the call very well. Most of us had not seen that call before, and even if he had made a call that was dead wrong no one would have questioned it because it called it forcefully, loudly, and immediately. All things I appreciate and respect. It was an excellent call, and he is an excellent umpire who I I request for games as often as possible.

[Thunderheads]

I know the rule quite well....I didn't express myself well in saying he "fooled" anyone.  He made the call very well. Most of us had not seen that call before, and even if he had made a call that was dead wrong no one would have questioned it because it called it forcefully, loudly, and immediately. All things I appreciate and respect. It was an excellent call, and he is an excellent umpire who I I request for games as often as possible.

excellent!!

[BigUmpire]

You dont have to be an old umpire to be a good umpire.

[johnnyg08]

Please tell me that you went out and argued an ejection that involves a safety rule in 12 yr old baseball?

Young umpires throughout the country work in minor league baseball. Don't judge the quality of an umpire by age.

[SteveJ]

I'm a new guy on this board. I find this site to be informative and educational but some of you guys tend to be a little rough on some of the "Guest" who venture on here seeking your wisdom and guidance. Eastside Coach simply wanted to know if a call was correct.  Eastside Coach used words like "very young" and "fooling us", that seemed to offend some here. My guess is that he wasn't trying to slight the umpire only to supply information to set-up his OP.

 

Richvee did an excellent job of answering the coach's question.

 

Some of you ventured into areas that to some might seem a little condescending with your responses.  There's no question that the coach needs to learn the rules. But honestly, how many 12U coaches have you guys met that are "experts" on the rules? In fact I'll bet that there aren't very many "young" umpires working 12U ball that are experts on the rules. It is obvious that some of yours definition of a "young" umpire may be different than Eastside Coach's.  While the guys working MiLB are "young" umpires (most of you are young umpires, age wise, to me) my guess is that the umpire that Eastside Coach was talking about was just a little younger than most MiLB umpires.

 

I'm not looking to start anything with any of you guys. I just wanted to offer this thought: I believe that we all have an excellent opportunity to educate both young umpires (young = less experienced than ourselves) and non-umpires with U-E. We should use it in a way that advances baseball rules knowledge, not look for ways to address-down those who venture on here wishing to learn.

[JaxRolo]

I'm a new guy on this board. I find this site to be informative and educational but some of you guys tend to be a little rough on some of the "Guest" who venture on here seeking your wisdom and guidance. Eastside Coach simply wanted to know if a call was correct.  Eastside Coach used words like "very young" and "fooling us", that seemed to offend some here. My guess is that he wasn't trying to slight the umpire only to supply information to set-up his OP.

 

Richvee did an excellent job of answering the coach's question.

 

Some of you ventured into areas that to some might seem a little condescending with your responses.  There's no question that the coach needs to learn the rules. But honestly, how many 12U coaches have you guys met that are "experts" on the rules? In fact I'll bet that there aren't very many "young" umpires working 12U ball that are experts on the rules. It is obvious that some of yours definition of a "young" umpire may be different than Eastside Coach's.  While the guys working MiLB are "young" umpires (most of you are young umpires, age wise, to me) my guess is that the umpire that Eastside Coach was talking about was just a little younger than most MiLB umpires.

 

I'm not looking to start anything with any of you guys. I just wanted to offer this thought: I believe that we all have an excellent opportunity to educate both young umpires (young = less experienced than ourselves) and non-umpires with U-E. We should use it in a way that advances baseball rules knowledge, not look for ways to address-down those who venture on here wishing to learn.

Well said!

[johnnyg08]

If the guy would spend a little more time in the rule book than trying to throw an umpire under the bus to prove a correct call as a wrong call then yeah, I could move on.

If he comes back on here and says that he made contact w/ the umpire, stated that he was wrong and the umpire was right when he asked other umpires about the rule and he apologizes for making a scene at the game, then yeah, I can move on. Until then, I'll say what I want to say about this situation.

Thank you.

[Thunderheads]

@JaxRolo ....

 

Rolando, ...you can't have it both ways (LOL) ....either you like SteveJ's post, or johnnyg08's ....but I really don't see how you can like both?

 

I understand Steve's post, but I don't think he read it like an "umpire-coach" interaction, because if he did, ...he'd feel the same way most of us did.

[JaxRolo]

@JaxRolo ....

 

Rolando, ...you can't have it both ways (LOL) ....either you like SteveJ's post, or johnnyg08's ....but I really don't see how you can like both?

 

I understand Steve's post, but I don't think he read it like an "umpire-coach" interaction, because if he did, ...he'd feel the same way most of us did.

I like the way Steve came across with his post but Johnnys post also made sense.

[SteveJ]

@JaxRolo ....

 

Rolando, ...you can't have it both ways (LOL) ....either you like SteveJ's post, or johnnyg08's ....but I really don't see how you can like both?

 

I understand Steve's post, but I don't think he read it like an "umpire-coach" interaction, because if he did, ...he'd feel the same way most of us did.

I understood the situation.  From the OP I assumed that Eastside Coach went to the umpire and asked for an explanation.  He wasn't challenging/arguing a judgement call. IMHO he was just asking for clarification on a rule. Nothing in his post indicated that he was angry at the umpire or disrespectful.

 

Like all of you I would love for a 12U coach to be as knowledgeable, regarding the rules, as most of the guys here on U-E.  But, that's rarely going to happen. So I have learned that when dealing with lower age bracket coaches I might have to take on the roll of mentor at times.  As long as they approach me in a calm and respectful manor I will explain things (non-judgement calls) to them. Would I expect a college or even a high school varsity coach to question me on plays like the OP?  No I would not. But they to might want an explanation regarding a play. But I expect a different level of rules knowledge from them so they might upset me easier. 

 

We all know that mastering the rules of baseball is not easy as just reading them. So I keep that in mind when dealing with lower age bracket coaches. I want to help them learn, not just be looking to punish them right away. So like I said earlier, if I am approached in a calm and respectful manor I am happy to educate the the managers/coaches in a positive manor.

 

I am not trying to convince any one here that my way of handling things is the best way. I am just merely sharing how I handle things, as part of my U-E experience.

[johnnyg08]

Sure. But the problem at the youth level is that those plays are argued like the coach actually knows the rule(s).

Furthermore, it is a safety rule!

[SteveJ]

Sure. But the problem at the youth level is that those plays are argued like the coach actually knows the rule(s).

Furthermore, it is a safety rule!

I agree!  A major problem with some youth programs is that the coaches (and parents) think they know the rules when they haven't a clue....

 

The league I work for spends a lot of time and money instructing umpires, managers/coaches, players and parents on the rules. In fact today we conducted rules training for the 13U PONY league that begins playing here next Saturday.  We covered the main PONY and local league rules (no time to cover the entire OBR book) and then they scrimmaged for a few hours (until the rain came).

[Mike Prince]

Sometimes ejecting when you should is a better option than trying to educate the ignorant...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[SteveJ]

Sometimes ejecting when you should is a better option than trying to educate the ignorant...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I'm not sure that asking for a clarification on a ruling is an objectable offense...depending on attitude of course.  I am approachable...now.  Back when I first began umpiring we were taught differently and acted differently.  Today's umpires are kinder and gentler.  I remember years ago going to a NCAA clinic and being introduced to the "new" K & G umpire ways for the first time.  I still have the umpire's manual (stored away some place) they gave us outlining the new approachable/be willing to change your call umpire. Talking about teaching an old dog new tricks!

[BigUmpire]

Another NEW Umpire bumper sticker from @Mike Prince:

 

"Sometimes ejecting when you should is a better option than trying to educate the ignorant "- Mike Prince