Scissors Technique

[catcher]

I currently use the box but im thinking i might get a better view and get hit less in the scissors. Is this true?

Just a few questions: what is the proper form for the scissors? Obviously i know the basic idea but i dont know how far into the slot, how far apart my legs should be, etc.

What are the downsides to the scissors besides potential back or neck pain? Any reason why an evaluator wouldnt like it?

[MidAmUmp]

Better look?  Probably not.  If you work in the slot PROPERLY no stance is going to give you a better look than another.  You're going to have a great look regardless of your stance.

 

Hit less?  Probably not.  The only way you're going to get hit less is to have better catchers.  Foul balls are going to find you.

 

As far as a proper form - stagger your back leg for balance (don't put it straight behind you).  Some bend their back leg for safety.

 

The downsides are not really back and neck pain, it is back and neck injuries.  While some MLB'ers work the scissors, most have moved to the box because your head/neck are exposed and can be much more easily injured by a direct shot to the mask.

 

Stance is a personal preference.  If you have to stand on your head to get pitches right, then stand on your head.

[alex7]

I currently use the box but im thinking i might get a better view and get hit less in the scissors. Is this true?

Just a few questions: what is the proper form for the scissors? Obviously i know the basic idea but i dont know how far into the slot, how far apart my legs should be, etc.

What are the downsides to the scissors besides potential back or neck pain? Any reason why an evaluator wouldnt like it?

 

Taking a direct mask shot using the scissors, because of your slight forward lean and weight being mostly on your forward foot, is like leaning into a punch.

That's why you're more likely to get injured / concussed.  Very little give compared to the knock-back you'll receive on a direct shot if you're using the box stance.

 

Your view from the scissors should be exactly the same as the box, being you'll still get right into the same slot position, then change your right foot position and hand placement while leaving the head in the same spot.

[JaxRolo]

I currently use the box but im thinking i might get a better view and get hit less in the scissors. Is this true? Just a few questions: what is the proper form for the scissors? Obviously i know the basic idea but i dont know how far into the slot, how far apart my legs should be, etc. What are the downsides to the scissors besides potential back or neck pain? Any reason why an evaluator wouldnt like it?

How old are you? The scissors is only for those over 60 or softball umpires.

[catcher]

Says the person hobbling around on one foot... 

 

Get well soon.

 

I think I'm going to stick with the box.

[catcher]

 

 

If you work in the slot PROPERLY no stance is going to give you a better look than another.

What is proper slot positioning?

 

PS: How do you put the timestamp on quotes? 

[MidAmUmp]

 

 

 

If you work in the slot PROPERLY no stance is going to give you a better look than another.

What is proper slot positioning?

 

PS: How do you put the timestamp on quotes? 

 

What are you doing Sept. 4-7, 2014???  Come see us in Missouri and I'll show you. 

 

The slot is the area between the catcher & the hitter.  There's kind of an imaginary box - batter's elbow (Top), catcher's head (side), catcher's shoulder (bottom), batter's chest (side).  Get yourself in that box with you chin at the top of the catcher's head which should put your eyes just below the batter's elbow which will put your eyes at the top of the zone.  From this spot you should be able to see the outside corner and beyond.

 

The slot really starts with your feet.  On a RHB - Put your right foot in the center of the catcher's back, then step up with your left foot.  Proper feet positioning will get you in the slot.

[catcher]

Thanks! Beyond a general "between the batter and the catcher" I was pretty clueless. This will definitely help.

[BT_Blue]

"The slot really starts with your feet.  On a RHB - Put your right foot in the center of the catcher's back, then step up with your left foot.  Proper feet positioning will get you in the slot."

I've been coming across this recommendation quite a bit lately qbout stepping in with your not slot foot first. This is counter to everything I have been taught over the years. I find that I am off if I step with my non slot foot first.

[MidAmUmp]

"The slot really starts with your feet.  On a RHB - Put your right foot in the center of the catcher's back, then step up with your left foot.  Proper feet positioning will get you in the slot."

I've been coming across this recommendation quite a bit lately qbout stepping in with your not slot foot first. This is counter to everything I have been taught over the years. I find that I am off if I step with my non slot foot first.

 

Anyone who's been to umpire school has learned to step with your slot foot first, then step back and to the side with your non-slot foot. 

The pros - You start in the slot, which is where you want to be.

The cons - It's great if you do it about 50 times daily for 5 weeks.  It becomes muscle memory.  But if you try to teach someone to do it in a 3-4 day clinic it creates a squared off (at best) or inverted stance because umpires naturally want to step across and not back.  A lot of times you'll even see guys do it correctly, then move their slot foot back to square off.

 

What we teach is to walk into your stance, plant your non-slot foot first, then continue stepping forward with your slot foot. 

The pros - It's a more natural movement...step back and relax in between pitches, then step forward into your stance.

The cons - You don't start off in the slot, and at times have to fight to get in the slot.

 

Do what's comfortable.  Either is going to get you where you eventually need to be.

[Umpire in Chief]

One thing a D-I assignor taught me at one of his clinics, which is hard to explain in a forum  was to base your slot position off of the batter not the catcher. 

[grayhawk]

One thing a D-I assignor taught me at one of his clinics, which is hard to explain in a forum  was to base your slot position off of the batter not the catcher. 

 

That's what I do.  My slot foot is essentially pointed at the middle of the batter's feet, or the middle of where is stride is going to be if he has a severely open or closed stance.  I will make small adjustments based on where F2 is setting up.

 

I've also been taught in clinics to do what @MidAmUmp says, but since we are evaluated in my HS unit to set the slot foot first, that is what I do.  I've heard stepping in with your trail foot in the middle of F2's feet, but if he is setting up on the outside corner, I do not want to be that far out.

 

I can see the merits of ensuring your chin is right on the inside corner every time, as you will be getting a consistent view of the zone on almost every pitch (with the exception of when you are being squeezed and have to adjust to see the release), but I set my slot based on the batter and it works for me.  I feel very good about my zone (don't we all), but I get very little guff from coaches.  I am working on being more consistent on the low strike.

[BT_Blue]

Iwas taught slot foot first, been doing it for so long, would be really had to change now.

[MidAmUmp]

I should clarify...it is what I teach...not what WE teach.  Each instructor teaches differently.  Bottom line is get in the slot, have good timing and get the call right.

[TK33]

I don't have a logic for this but if the hitter, left or right, is under 5'8 or so I prefer the scissor.

 

If I'm doing HP 3-4 games in a day I switch between the two.  If you do as Umpire In Chief says, base your position on the hitter every time you shouldn't notice much of a difference.  This is also good advice because catchers at higher levels move all the time anyways so no use positioning off them.

 

If you are using the scissors make sure your shoulders and neck are relaxed, this will lessen the impact of foul balls to the mask and fatigue.  I have seen guys stick their neck out like a trophy animal mount, they are the ones who get dinged the most in the scissor.

 

In my opinion too many young and new umpires use the box incorrectly and really should use the scissor until their skills develop.  They don't see the outside corner and call too many strikes that are down and or away.

[catcher]

 

They don't see the outside corner and call too many strikes that are down and or away.

 

Sounds like me!

 

So my next questions: what about distance behind the catcher? 6 in? 1 ft?

[TK33]

close enough so you can see, far enough so you are not in his way.  Depends on the person to me.

 

The last thing you want to do is hit the catcher.  I had an ump push my left shoulder, thus pushing my glove into the swing.  Then he called catcher's interference on me.  Needless to say I was tossed, with a sore left hand.

[catcher]

 

close enough so you can see, far enough so you are not in his way.  Depends on the person to me.

 

The last thing you want to do is hit the catcher.  I had an ump push my left shoulder, thus pushing my glove into the swing.  Then he called catcher's interference on me.  Needless to say I was tossed, with a sore left hand.

 

When you're catching, the guy behind you is the dumbest guy in the world. And when you're umpiring, the guy in front of you is the dumbest guy in the world. ( Usually - I rarely have good catchers.)

[rjt6]

I currently use the box but im thinking i might get a better view and get hit less in the scissors. Is this true?

Just a few questions: what is the proper form for the scissors? Obviously i know the basic idea but i dont know how far into the slot, how far apart my legs should be, etc.

What are the downsides to the scissors besides potential back or neck pain? Any reason why an evaluator wouldnt like it?

 

I've seen some umpires use scissor for RHB and box for LHB

[catsbackr]

 

 

close enough so you can see, far enough so you are not in his way.  Depends on the person to me.

 

The last thing you want to do is hit the catcher.  I had an ump push my left shoulder, thus pushing my glove into the swing.  Then he called catcher's interference on me.  Needless to say I was tossed, with a sore left hand.

 

When you're catching, the guy behind you is the dumbest guy in the world. And when you're umpiring, the guy in front of you is the dumbest guy in the world. ( Usually - I rarely have good catchers.)

 

When you're umpiring, you need to work better baseball then.  When I'm umpiring, the guy in front of me is GOLD!

[Scratch Franzeo]

F2 is my favorite guy on the field

[mstaylor]

I have been off the3 board for a while so I have missed this thread. As everybody knows I am a big scissor guy. I work back from the catcher like the GD stance. I also keep my upper body a little more vertical than many scissor guys. You do get hit less, for the same reason as the GD stance, you are farther back plus the scissor gives you less exposed areas. I get shots off my shin guards, occasionally off the chest and mask, most go by. I get a better look because I work higher than a box umpire. Those are the advantages, the disadvantages are it is very unstable until you really learn it. I was in a pro clinic years ago and both cage instructors,one AAA,one A ball,were scissor guys. The AAA guy said to stand back and step forward into the slot, the A guy said put your foot in the slot and slide your back leg back. The step and slide back is the much better way to do it. It is easier on your leg and more accurate in placement. Another disadvantage to the scissor is you go down slightly later than other stances. This will get you dinged by evauluators because they don't understand that so they will tell you need to drop faster.