Tag helps foot off the base

[grayhawk]

I like the call.  Aybar helped the foot off the base, but McLouth was off balance:

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=27961365

 

[treydawgmt]

I'd prefer a less laid back call from West, but you expect that to him.  But as the announcers said (shockingly) well, Joe West was in perfect position to see that, and made the correct call.

[Thunderheads]

I don't think there's a push there at all ..............

[dumbdumb]

I like the call.  Aybar helped the foot off the base, but McLouth was off balance:

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=27961365

Without getting too technical, I do not see how one could "keep" a tag on a runner who was off balance and or whose momentum is possible carrying that runner off the base to "not help" the foot off the base. To help me, I need to know how you could keep the tag on the runner the whole time through the slide yet not be helping, or at least appear to be helping (and I guess the word here would be lightly pushing the foot) the foot off the bag. Should the fielder just tag him and pull the glove back, and then try to beat him to the punch with another tag if he sees the foot come off again. Or, should he just keep the tag on him the whole way, rather than see if his reflexes are quicker than the runner if the runner comes off the bag and then goes for the bag again.

Obviously the judgments involved are both the momentum of the slide carrying the runner off the bag or being so off balance and coming off the bag, and from the fielder, whether or not he tries to dislodge the runner from the bag, by the tag itself or by keeping the tag on the runner rather than just a normal hard quick tag where the glove is laid straight down and then straight back up.

 

That's what everyone gets paid the bucks for at any level of play. And, of course there will be some plays where half say the fielder's tag took the runner off, and half say the runner's momentum took him off the bag and the tag did not take the runner off the bag.

 

Agree with your conclusion on this play about the runner off balance, but not the helped push part, but there may be some who think the fielder's tag  was a push and took him off.

[Mike Prince]

I like the call - I just hope the coaches of the 10U tournament I am starting tonight didn't see it.  All this will do is reinforce that the eternal youth ball "hold the tag while the runner is standing on the base with two feet" tactic is effective...

[noumpere]

 

 

Agree with your conclusion on this play about the runner off balance, but not the helped push part, but there may be some who think the fielder's tag  was a push and took him off.

 

I think your putting too great an emphasis on "push" on not enough on requiring the runner to acquire and stabilize himself on the base.  Almost any act associated with a tag play hand / glove contact on the foot or arm should be called an out if the contact results in the foot / had coming off the bag.  Only if theres some delay after the runner aquires the base, or a separate contact with the body to push the runner should the call be safe.

[Umpire in Chief]

Memories

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=20188195

[dumbdumb]

 

 

 

Agree with your conclusion on this play about the runner off balance, but not the helped push part, but there may be some who think the fielder's tag  was a push and took him off.

 

I think your putting too great an emphasis on "push" on not enough on requiring the runner to acquire and stabilize himself on the base.  Almost any act associated with a tag play hand / glove contact on the foot or arm should be called an out if the contact results in the foot / had coming off the bag.  Only if theres some delay after the runner aquires the base, or a separate contact with the body to push the runner should the call be safe.

 

Agreed, but in the OP that first line, Ayabar "helped" the foot "off the base", sounded like McClouth was on the bag just fine until Ayabar helped (conveniently) him off.

I was just worried how one would ("honestly" explain if this is what they saw) explain that the fielder helped  take the runner off the base 2 inches but the runner's momentum took himself off the base 3 inches, therefor he was out due to the momentum rather than the help. Just couldn't picture that going over well with the manager/coach without getting an ejection.

[Fittske24]

I was just worried how one would ("honestly" explain if this is what they saw) explain that the fielder helped  take the runner off the base 2 inches but the runner's momentum took himself off the base 3 inches, therefor he was out due to the momentum rather than the help. Just couldn't picture that going over well with the manager/coach without getting an ejection.

How you explain it is exactly how you typed it.......

"the runner's momentum took himself off the base 3 inches, therefor he was out due to the momentum rather than the help."

End of discussion. No one said that coaches have to like or agree with our explanations. You can never go into an argument worried about an ejection. If you do, and the time for ejection occurs, your going to balk and miss it.

You have the explanation spot on. The runners momentum has not stopped.... thus the playing action continues. If the fielder keeps the tag on the runner while being off balance and the runner comes of the base.... Sorry Charlie.

[johnnyg08]

Memories

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=20188195

 

 

Funny they didn't eject him for throwing his helmet.  

[mstaylor]

I am an O's fan and the call was fine. He swung through the tag, and because McLouth was off balance he lost contact and the fielder retagged him.