Worked with a Bum....

[flastyle727]

I worked 4 games of USSSA ball and the level of play was pretty rough; however I was more miserable at the careless lack of effort from my partner.

 

For instance: Fly ball down right field foul line, we are working two man system of course, and I go out on the trouble ball from the "A". I am half way between the outfield fence and the 1B bag. The ball lands fair, I point it fair and turn towards the infield with the throw. At this point, I s**t a brick as I realize my partner is still "camping" behind the plate.     BR rounds 1st and heads two second for "thankfully" a stand up double with no throw.  

 

Here is my question: I have never worked with this guy. He is significantly older than I and in the parking lot said he had years and years of expierence. How should have I addressed this post game? Keep in mind this was game #1 of 4 total.

 

Needless to say, I told him we missed a rotation and explained it and he said "Ah no one noticed, no biggie"

 

The day got worse as took the stick.

 

R on 1st, no outs, a line drive in the gap, I rotate down towards 3B, throw is accurate and kid is dead to rights at 3B, tag is applied to left hand. I stand up ready to bang it out, but training told me take a look over my right shoulder and see my partner. Good thing because he at that moment is signally "a safe call that looked like a eagle flapping with closed fists" calling him safe.   So I immediately turn and jog away from the base in an effort to seperate myself from the play, hoping the coaches don't realize I was in better position. Thankfully it worked. How would you have handled this situation?

 

 

Nothing makes me miserbale more than working with a guy who doesn't care and I am working my A** off .  

 

I could be home with SWMBO and enjoying my weekend.

[scrounge]

How could you have addressed it post-game? There are a variety of methods, but I'm partial to "Hey, dumb***, didn't you see me 100 feet into right field? Why didn't you take the runner?".

 

Of course, procedures on going out make a fine topic for *pre*-game as well.

 

Same exact thing happened to me last year with a dude - TWICE. First time, I figured maybe he just forgot or hadn't known (we would have covered it pre-game, but he showed 3 mins before game time *sigh*). Second time after discussing nicely and going over it? I was less than charitable. Nearly the exact same scenario - I was way deep into RF, on the line for a ball that fell fair a few feet from the line and in front of a diving F9, who popped back up and immediately threw to 2B. If he hadn't had such a weak arm or had more time to put something on it, it would have been a close play. And there was my partner, not only still stuck at home but deeply engrossed into whatever TV program was playing on his indicator. Later that game, he appealed to me on a check swing he called a strike and other shenanigans, but I'll leave those for a different day.

[Specks]

I seem to have that kind of partner more than I should. In the case of the play at third, he has his responsibilities and I have mine, if I have R1 out then I'm banging it and he can explain the safe mechanic to the coaches. I try to always pre-game esp. with a new partner but in my experience they usually say "yea yea I got it". That kind of attitude lets me know early what kind of game I might have. Flip the sitch with me as the FU, I will signal the rotation pre pitch and won't even look at third if the play goes there. Covering for these guys will never teach them. Maybe HAVING to make a call from way out of position and the inevitable a$$ chewing they take will.

[semper_fi_72]

Here is my question: I have never worked with this guy. He is significantly older than I and in the parking lot said he had years and years of expierence. How should have I addressed this post game? Keep in mind this was game #1 of 4 total.

I have one important question.

How did you handle it PRE-GAME

I don't care how much experience or years they have.

If we never worked together you better believe we are per-gaming rotations etc, etc.

 

Also on the play at 3B.

Did you verbalize "I have third" as you went down the line to cover the play?

Communication, Communication, Communication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flastyle727]

 

Here is my question: I have never worked with this guy. He is significantly older than I and in the parking lot said he had years and years of expierence. How should have I addressed this post game? Keep in mind this was game #1 of 4 total.

I have one important question.

How did you handle it PRE-GAME

I don't care how much experience or years they have.

If we never worked together you better believe we are per-gaming rotations etc, etc.

 

Also on the play at 3B.

Did you verbalize "I have third" as you went down the line to cover the play?

Communication, Communication, Communication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great question. Can't have a pregame when the guy shows up, 10 mins before game time and spends that time getting plate gear on.    

 

I was screaming <insert his name> I'm at THREE, I'm at THREE!!! Needless to say I agree with your points 100%.

[flastyle727]

I seem to have that kind of partner more than I should. In the case of the play at third, he has his responsibilities and I have mine, if I have R1 out then I'm banging it and he can explain the safe mechanic to the coaches. I try to always pre-game esp. with a new partner but in my experience they usually say "yea yea I got it". That kind of attitude lets me know early what kind of game I might have. Flip the sitch with me as the FU, I will signal the rotation pre pitch and won't even look at third if the play goes there. Covering for these guys will never teach them. Maybe HAVING to make a call from way out of position and the inevitable a$$ chewing they take will.

 

I can see your point but I am not a fan of making double calls because it makes us BOTH look like dirt....This is why I let him make the safe call, so he could eat it. He got undressed and eventually dumped the guy.

[JaxRolo]

I agree with you making the call at 3rd. It's your call. Let the idiot look like an idiot. Now if you are BU the yes take a glance to see if PU made it up the line.

[Daniel]

Are you sure that wasn't Jax who was the bum?

[RichMSN]

 

Here is my question: I have never worked with this guy. He is significantly older than I and in the parking lot said he had years and years of expierence. How should have I addressed this post game? Keep in mind this was game #1 of 4 total.

I have one important question.

How did you handle it PRE-GAME

I don't care how much experience or years they have.

If we never worked together you better believe we are per-gaming rotations etc, etc.

 

Also on the play at 3B.

Did you verbalize "I have third" as you went down the line to cover the play?

Communication, Communication, Communication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I've found, through experience, that pre-gaming these situations really doesn't help.  In other words, I'm not going to be able to teach some idiot how to umpire in 10 minutes before a game.

 

I know one thing -- after I went out on the first ball and my partner didn't take the BR around, I'm probably not doing the same thing again.  I may turn and get fair/foul, but I'm going to be prepared to have to get to second since my partner won't.

 

I had a partner about 15 years ago who was old (and deaf) then and has since passed on.  Same situation (I go out, partner making dirt angels at the plate), except I wasn't so lucky.  I banged the batter-runner out from the outfield as he tried to stretch to a double (as close as I could get and the throw beat the runner by a mile).  I ended up ejecting the player and the head coach, too, only because of where I made the call.

[umpire_scott]

I agree with you making the call at 3rd. It's your call. Let the idiot look like an idiot. Now if you are BU the yes take a glance to see if PU made it up the line.

 

OP was the BU.  So the question is why was he screaming "I got 3".  With a trail runner he should not have 3.  He has the trail, and BU did what he was supposed to do in making the call.  Whether he was in position is another point.  In that case I'm always going to do what I'm supposed to do, which to my understanding is release the lead runner to the PU.  I will position myself in such a way that I can see enough to make a call at third in case my partner drops the ball and doesn't move up the line.  But I'm not going all the way to third and leaving no one to be in position to make a call at second.

[umpire_scott]

I think what many umpires need to realize is that there is a vast disparity in experience level of umpires, in professionalism of umpires, and in expectations of assigners.  There seem to be umpires on here that do high level umpiring that requires a certain level of dedication when it comes to appearance, professionalism, and experience.  Yet many of these same umpires work at level far below their highest level.  When doing this they are going to run across umpires that are just there for the money.  They may have been doing it for 20 years, but that doesn't mean they haven't been doing it wrong for 20 years.  In addition I know many umpires that have very impressive credentials, but when they are asked to do lower level stuff they don't even feel the need to bring their "C" game, let alone their "A" game.  I've worked many tournament and heard umpires that are used to making $60-70 a game say that for $40 a game there were going to do everything they could to get the game over as soon as possible.  

 

I think the best way to handle a bad umpire is to simply state the play afterwards in a very non-confrontational manner, possibly even referencing a future occurrence rather than the one he blew.  The bottom line is that if you piss off your partner by being critical he's bound to make more mistakes by stewing over the friction between the two of you.  So you've accomplished nothing.

[NCAAump2]

The guys who umpire only for the money and don't care about improving, their mechanics, rules knowledge, or their appearance will eventually weed themselves out of the higher level games, if they ever happen to get there.  Personally, I treat every game I work (whether it's a 12U or JUCO game) the same.  You never know who could be watching, or who knows who.  That can either make you or break you as far as advancing your career.  

 

As far as someone not bringing their "C' game, let alone their 'A game," if I work with someone and that's how they are going to work, I'll flat out tell the assigner that I won't work with them again.  If they'd rather use the guy who doesn't give a SH*#, fine.  If the assigner doesn't care if the umpires he hires don't care, I don't want to work for him.  I didn't invest all my time and money on camps, clinics, rule books, manuals, and top notch uniforms and equipment to work for someone who doesn't value an umpire who is that devoted to their craft.  

[flastyle727]

 

I agree with you making the call at 3rd. It's your call. Let the idiot look like an idiot. Now if you are BU the yes take a glance to see if PU made it up the line.

 

OP was the BU.  So the question is why was he screaming "I got 3".  With a trail runner he should not have 3.  He has the trail, and BU did what he was supposed to do in making the call.  Whether he was in position is another point.  In that case I'm always going to do what I'm supposed to do, which to my understanding is release the lead runner to the PU.  I will position myself in such a way that I can see enough to make a call at third in case my partner drops the ball and doesn't move up the line.  But I'm not going all the way to third and leaving no one to be in position to make a call at second.

 

No OP was the PU, me, I had four games with the individual two with the stick and two on the bases. The 3rd base issue was the game I had the stick.

[umpire_scott]

The guys who umpire only for the money and don't care about improving, their mechanics, rules knowledge, or their appearance will eventually weed themselves out of the higher level games, if they ever happen to get there.  Personally, I treat every game I work (whether it's a 12U or JUCO game) the same.  You never know who could be watching, or who knows who.  That can either make you or break you as far as advancing your career.  

 

As far as someone not bringing their "C' game, let alone their 'A game," if I work with someone and that's how they are going to work, I'll flat out tell the assigner that I won't work with them again.  If they'd rather use the guy who doesn't give a ######, fine.  If the assigner doesn't care if the umpires he hires don't care, I don't want to work for him.  I didn't invest all my time and money on camps, clinics, rule books, manuals, and top notch uniforms and equipment to work for someone who doesn't value an umpire who is that devoted to their craft.  

 

I totally agree with this and operate the same way.  But it is clear to me that not all do.  A couple of examples I've had:  

 

There is another umpire that I see get games consistently.  Far more consistently than I do.  I've worked with him a number of times.  He is not terrible, but he's not even at my level (which isn't all that high), and he consistently wears a powder blue shirt with a quarter-sized ink stain on the shirt pocket.  Why does he get games?  Because the assigners expectations are clearly low.  In AZ I would have been lucky to be allowed on the field with an ink stain on my shirt.  But for certain it would have been one time.  I've seen him wear the same shirt for two years in a row now.  The point is that this organization assigns more based on who will do the most games versus who are the best umpires.  This of course breeds poor umpiring.  Why would you take the time to improve your appearance or techniques if it is not impacting your pocketbook.  And these guys never do the higher level stuff because they don't need to.  

 

I did a game last year with two guys that do high school games and a lot of legion games.  All they talked about before the game was how this level of play was below what they were used to and that they did not take it seriously.  They altered the normal 3-man rotation to make less moving around.  After the first game that I had the plate they told me my strike zone was too small for this "type" of game (it was a 16U travel ball tournament).

[umpire_scott]

 

 

I agree with you making the call at 3rd. It's your call. Let the idiot look like an idiot. Now if you are BU the yes take a glance to see if PU made it up the line.

 

OP was the BU.  So the question is why was he screaming "I got 3".  With a trail runner he should not have 3.  He has the trail, and BU did what he was supposed to do in making the call.  Whether he was in position is another point.  In that case I'm always going to do what I'm supposed to do, which to my understanding is release the lead runner to the PU.  I will position myself in such a way that I can see enough to make a call at third in case my partner drops the ball and doesn't move up the line.  But I'm not going all the way to third and leaving no one to be in position to make a call at second.

 

No OP was the PU, me, I had four games with the individual two with the stick and two on the bases. The 3rd base issue was the game I had the stick.

 

 

My bad.  Read it wrong.

[Mike Prince]

If you do a proper pre-game, rotations (at least the understanding of who does what, not necessarily the execution) should not be an issue.

 

Come to a common understanding of who will have what responsibilities and getting crossed up will be an exception.  Some BU's will want everything on the bases , others will prefer that the PU rotates to 3B per SOP.

[mstaylor]

 

The guys who umpire only for the money and don't care about improving, their mechanics, rules knowledge, or their appearance will eventually weed themselves out of the higher level games, if they ever happen to get there.  Personally, I treat every game I work (whether it's a 12U or JUCO game) the same.  You never know who could be watching, or who knows who.  That can either make you or break you as far as advancing your career.  

 

As far as someone not bringing their "C' game, let alone their 'A game," if I work with someone and that's how they are going to work, I'll flat out tell the assigner that I won't work with them again.  If they'd rather use the guy who doesn't give a ######, fine.  If the assigner doesn't care if the umpires he hires don't care, I don't want to work for him.  I didn't invest all my time and money on camps, clinics, rule books, manuals, and top notch uniforms and equipment to work for someone who doesn't value an umpire who is that devoted to their craft.  

 

I totally agree with this and operate the same way.  But it is clear to me that not all do.  A couple of examples I've had:  

 

There is another umpire that I see get games consistently.  Far more consistently than I do.  I've worked with him a number of times.  He is not terrible, but he's not even at my level (which isn't all that high), and he consistently wears a powder blue shirt with a quarter-sized ink stain on the shirt pocket.  Why does he get games?  Because the assigners expectations are clearly low.  In AZ I would have been lucky to be allowed on the field with an ink stain on my shirt.  But for certain it would have been one time.  I've seen him wear the same shirt for two years in a row now.  The point is that this organization assigns more based on who will do the most games versus who are the best umpires.  This of course breeds poor umpiring.  Why would you take the time to improve your appearance or techniques if it is not impacting your pocketbook.  And these guys never do the higher level stuff because they don't need to.  

 

I did a game last year with two guys that do high school games and a lot of legion games.  All they talked about before the game was how this level of play was below what they were used to and that they did not take it seriously.  They altered the normal 3-man rotation to make less moving around.  After the first game that I had the plate they told me my strike zone was too small for this "type" of game (it was a 16U travel ball tournament).

 

If they aren't going to take it serious they should stay home. The strikezone should be what you use in a varsity game. 

[RichMSN]

The guys who umpire only for the money and don't care about improving, their mechanics, rules knowledge, or their appearance will eventually weed themselves out of the higher level games, if they ever happen to get there. Personally, I treat every game I work (whether it's a 12U or JUCO game) the same. You never know who could be watching, or who knows who. That can either make you or break you as far as advancing your career.

As far as someone not bringing their "C' game, let alone their 'A game," if I work with someone and that's how they are going to work, I'll flat out tell the assigner that I won't work with them again. If they'd rather use the guy who doesn't give a ######, fine. If the assigner doesn't care if the umpires he hires don't care, I don't want to work for him. I didn't invest all my time and money on camps, clinics, rule books, manuals, and top notch uniforms and equipment to work for someone who doesn't value an umpire who is that devoted to their craft.

I totally agree with this and operate the same way. But it is clear to me that not all do. A couple of examples I've had:

There is another umpire that I see get games consistently. Far more consistently than I do. I've worked with him a number of times. He is not terrible, but he's not even at my level (which isn't all that high), and he consistently wears a powder blue shirt with a quarter-sized ink stain on the shirt pocket. Why does he get games? Because the assigners expectations are clearly low. In AZ I would have been lucky to be allowed on the field with an ink stain on my shirt. But for certain it would have been one time. I've seen him wear the same shirt for two years in a row now. The point is that this organization assigns more based on who will do the most games versus who are the best umpires. This of course breeds poor umpiring. Why would you take the time to improve your appearance or techniques if it is not impacting your pocketbook. And these guys never do the higher level stuff because they don't need to.

I did a game last year with two guys that do high school games and a lot of legion games. All they talked about before the game was how this level of play was below what they were used to and that they did not take it seriously. They altered the normal 3-man rotation to make less moving around. After the first game that I had the plate they told me my strike zone was too small for this "type" of game (it was a 16U travel ball tournament).

I'm thankful for guys like this. It's because of them that I'm rated so well as an umpire and it's also because of them I'm never asked to work 6 games on a Saturday at a weekend tournament.

You can only control yourself. When I (and this is quite rare) work with a guy like this, I assume that (1) he won't cover third, (2) he won't have the BR when I go out, (3) he won't TCB, and (4) he won't have my back if a situation arises.

It's not a fun place to be.

I work a lot of sports over the course of a year, but I'm very picky about what I work. I do football, basketball, and baseball.

I've handpicked the people I work with and those people have the same work ethic I do

In football, I have my own HS crew and we work *everything* together, from freshman games through varsity games. I'm also on a college crew (D3 level) and at that level the terrible officials are weeded out, cause nobody in it for the bucks gives up a 12-16 hour Saturday for $150 when they could be working youth football.

In basketball I worked 58 varsity HS and junior college games this past season. In 95% of them, I worked with people I hand-picked. The only terrible times I had last season were in the 3-4 games where I took a game with someone I didn't know.

I just finished my college / HS baseball schedule and have only worked 50 games this season -- 31 of them with my regular partner. Only 2 games this season where I would've rather worked alone. Those were both make-up games where I agreed to fill in at the last minute. Both guys told me they wanted to work the bases and then couldn't even do that well -- or competently.

The best move you can make, IMO, is to find someone you love working with and sell that concept to your assignors. They have slots to fill -- if you can fill two of them for the assignor (with you and a trusted partner), that's 1 less slot he needs to fill.

[noumpere]

I worked with an absolutely horses*** umpire yesterday.  Unfortunately, I was by myself.  lol.

[flastyle727]

 

 

The guys who umpire only for the money and don't care about improving, their mechanics, rules knowledge, or their appearance will eventually weed themselves out of the higher level games, if they ever happen to get there. Personally, I treat every game I work (whether it's a 12U or JUCO game) the same. You never know who could be watching, or who knows who. That can either make you or break you as far as advancing your career.

As far as someone not bringing their "C' game, let alone their 'A game," if I work with someone and that's how they are going to work, I'll flat out tell the assigner that I won't work with them again. If they'd rather use the guy who doesn't give a ######, fine. If the assigner doesn't care if the umpires he hires don't care, I don't want to work for him. I didn't invest all my time and money on camps, clinics, rule books, manuals, and top notch uniforms and equipment to work for someone who doesn't value an umpire who is that devoted to their craft.

I totally agree with this and operate the same way. But it is clear to me that not all do. A couple of examples I've had:

There is another umpire that I see get games consistently. Far more consistently than I do. I've worked with him a number of times. He is not terrible, but he's not even at my level (which isn't all that high), and he consistently wears a powder blue shirt with a quarter-sized ink stain on the shirt pocket. Why does he get games? Because the assigners expectations are clearly low. In AZ I would have been lucky to be allowed on the field with an ink stain on my shirt. But for certain it would have been one time. I've seen him wear the same shirt for two years in a row now. The point is that this organization assigns more based on who will do the most games versus who are the best umpires. This of course breeds poor umpiring. Why would you take the time to improve your appearance or techniques if it is not impacting your pocketbook. And these guys never do the higher level stuff because they don't need to.

I did a game last year with two guys that do high school games and a lot of legion games. All they talked about before the game was how this level of play was below what they were used to and that they did not take it seriously. They altered the normal 3-man rotation to make less moving around. After the first game that I had the plate they told me my strike zone was too small for this "type" of game (it was a 16U travel ball tournament).

I'm thankful for guys like this. It's because of them that I'm rated so well as an umpire and it's also because of them I'm never asked to work 6 games on a Saturday at a weekend tournament.

You can only control yourself. When I (and this is quite rare) work with a guy like this, I assume that (1) he won't cover third, (2) he won't have the BR when I go out, (3) he won't TCB, and (4) he won't have my back if a situation arises.

It's not a fun place to be.

I work a lot of sports over the course of a year, but I'm very picky about what I work. I do football, basketball, and baseball.

I've handpicked the people I work with and those people have the same work ethic I do

In football, I have my own HS crew and we work *everything* together, from freshman games through varsity games. I'm also on a college crew (D3 level) and at that level the terrible officials are weeded out, cause nobody in it for the bucks gives up a 12-16 hour Saturday for $150 when they could be working youth football.

In basketball I worked 58 varsity HS and junior college games this past season. In 95% of them, I worked with people I hand-picked. The only terrible times I had last season were in the 3-4 games where I took a game with someone I didn't know.

I just finished my college / HS baseball schedule and have only worked 50 games this season -- 31 of them with my regular partner. Only 2 games this season where I would've rather worked alone. Those were both make-up games where I agreed to fill in at the last minute. Both guys told me they wanted to work the bases and then couldn't even do that well -- or competently.

The best move you can make, IMO, is to find someone you love working with and sell that concept to your assignors. They have slots to fill -- if you can fill two of them for the assignor (with you and a trusted partner), that's 1 less slot he needs to fill.

 

IMO I totally disagree with this theory....I won't elaborate but as an association it needs to be a "team effort" so if your working with "your handpicked guys" no one else can advance or learn anything new. It's like any team, your as good as the weakest link. Again, just my opinion.

[RichMSN]

 

IMO I totally disagree with this theory....I won't elaborate but as an association it needs to be a "team effort" so if your working with "your handpicked guys" no one else can advance or learn anything new. It's like any team, your as good as the weakest link. Again, just my opinion.

 

 

We have no assigning associations where I live.  We work directly with league commissioners and with smaller assignors.  I'm in it to enjoy myself while working games.  I have no larger group (in baseball) I'm responsible for.

 

That said, in Little League I do as much mentoring and as much training as I can.  At higher levels, it's about working with competent partners I enjoy being on the field with.

[umpire_scott]

My point is that I often hear people complaining about working with incompetent umpires and usually it occurs when they step down in competition.  Bad umpires aren't going to work high level ball.  So if you want to avoid bad umpires then don't work the money-making travel ball tournaments.  That is where you will get your bad umpires.  And the reason is that they are not held to a higher standard in order to get games.  They have no incentive to improve.

[flastyle727]

My point is that I often hear people complaining about working with incompetent umpires and usually it occurs when they step down in competition.  Bad umpires aren't going to work high level ball.  So if you want to avoid bad umpires then don't work the money-making travel ball tournaments.  That is where you will get your bad umpires.  And the reason is that they are not held to a higher standard in order to get games.  They have no incentive to improve.

Well were does a guy have to go to maintain the same level of play during summer ball? How would you suggest a guy move up without being noticed in some of these "lower level" situations?

[umpire_scott]

 

My point is that I often hear people complaining about working with incompetent umpires and usually it occurs when they step down in competition.  Bad umpires aren't going to work high level ball.  So if you want to avoid bad umpires then don't work the money-making travel ball tournaments.  That is where you will get your bad umpires.  And the reason is that they are not held to a higher standard in order to get games.  They have no incentive to improve.

Well were does a guy have to go to maintain the same level of play during summer ball? How would you suggest a guy move up without being noticed in some of these "lower level" situations?

 

 

Well obviously most of the guys that are complaining have already moved up.  As far as where to go that depends on the area of the country you are in.  I only know what it's like here in St. Louis.  Here during the summer there is legion ball and tournaments that are assigned by reputable organizations.  They generally pay $55- $65 per game.  As I'm new to the area I've just started working for them.  My expectation is that these are higher level, mostly varsity high school ball playing in the summer.  But there are leagues and tournaments for independent travel ball teams to play in that are generally younger (8U - 14U) that pay $35-$45 per game.  At least here these are not assigned through an organization but rather directly through the tournament organizer.  Here is where you get poor umpiring because there is very little training, feedback, or accountability.  But if the umpires are willing to work whenever asked they get games.  

[JaxRolo]

Are you sure that wasn't Jax who was the bum?

Been called many many things but I don't think I have ever heard Bum!