Texas High School wants a redo of game. Blames umps cheated.

[RichMSN]

 

Seems on the video the ump called it right away, the pitcher did not stop in his delivery. The ump can be seen calling that before the camera moves to follow the foul ball.

This video might help. To accuse umps of inpropriety is a hard sell. Pitcher was in stretch, not wind up with bases loaded.

 

Hate when lawyers get involved in any game.

 

He paused long enough in that situation.  Are you really going to call a balk there?  No way, horrible judgement.

 

 

I agree with you.  100%.  Look, we can all sit at our keyboards and be great umpires.  

 

Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Now, let's look at the situation.  It's R2+R3.  Exactly what advantage is the pitcher getting here?  Is he holding a runner closer?  Is he quick pitching by not coming to a complete and discernible stop? No.

 

For me, balking in a run at ANY TIME needs to be one I can defend -- it needs to be an elephant OR it needs to put the offense at a real disadvantage by situation.

 

I know some here will be turned off by this, but I have no desire to be known as the umpire who called a chicken-SH*# balk that ended a playoff game.

[NFUA_44]

Until (or if) the guy who called it explains his reasoning we are left with whatever we can armchair out of it.

I will go with Rich in the sense that yu have to be situationally aware of what is going on, at the same time the umpires didn't give up the 10 runs, and didn't put the HT in the sitch where the game was on the line, the next pitch could have easily been roped into the gap with the same result.

If coaches are involved in ANY part of the selection process then your asking for trouble. Isn't it part of their make-up to do whatever they can to win, esp. In a playoff scenario. TX needs to hand over the reins of the selection process to the State UMPIRE Assn. And let them handle it.

Its sour grapes from a team that was billed as the "clear favorite" and didn't get the job done. The only way to make it something else is to show real evidence that the umpiring crew somehow "cheated". Just my HO

[Dannytheman]

I wouldn't have called the balk either. Let me make that clear.  But if this becomes a legal matter, all that will be matter is that it IS a balk. The video is clear, he doesn't stop and the ump calls it immediatley NOT knowing that the ball hit is fair or foul. (It was only foul by 2-3 feet?)

 

A judge is going to look at 2 things.

"Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Case closed. Game over.  IMHO!  With all due respect. Loving you all.

[RichMSN]

The judge wouldn't even look at the video of the balk.  This really has nothing to do with what was called on the field.  Preceived bad calls happen no matter who is umpiring.

 

The question will be -- did the school follow the established (albeit idiotic) procedure and is there equitable relief that can / should be applied.

 

I always find it funny that there are two groups of people who love the Texas system of the coaches picking the umpires -- the coaches AND the umpires who are in the favor of enough coaches to fill up their post-season schedules.

[HeadHunterLA]

I wouldn't have called the balk either. Let me make that clear.  But if this becomes a legal matter, all that will be matter is that it IS a balk. The video is clear, he doesn't stop and the ump calls it immediatley NOT knowing that the ball hit is fair or foul. (It was only foul by 2-3 feet?)

 

A judge is going to look at 2 things.

"Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Case closed. Game over.  IMHO!  With all due respect. Loving you all.

 

If it becomes a legal matter the only thing being contested will be whether the selection process of the umpires was valid.  You can't take a judgement balk call to court LOL. Christ, the dumb a$$ who called this balk need to have his head examined.  And as for the interference mentioned in the newspaper article, I looked at the video half a dozen times and from the angle shot I couldn't see anything worth calling.  Let the kids play decide the game.

[RichMSN]

 

I wouldn't have called the balk either. Let me make that clear.  But if this becomes a legal matter, all that will be matter is that it IS a balk. The video is clear, he doesn't stop and the ump calls it immediatley NOT knowing that the ball hit is fair or foul. (It was only foul by 2-3 feet?)

 

A judge is going to look at 2 things.

"Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Case closed. Game over.  IMHO!  With all due respect. Loving you all.

 

If it becomes a legal matter the only thing being contested will be whether the selection process of the umpires was valid.  You can't take a judgement balk call to court LOL. Christ, the dumb a$$ who called this balk need to have his head examined.  And as for the interference mentioned in the newspaper article, I looked at the video half a dozen times and from the angle shot I couldn't see anything worth calling.  Let the kids play decide the game.

 

 

 

You have a timestamp on the FPSR supposed interference?  I really would like to look at it, but don't want to take the time to find it.

[HeadHunterLA]

 

 

I wouldn't have called the balk either. Let me make that clear.  But if this becomes a legal matter, all that will be matter is that it IS a balk. The video is clear, he doesn't stop and the ump calls it immediatley NOT knowing that the ball hit is fair or foul. (It was only foul by 2-3 feet?)

 

A judge is going to look at 2 things.

"Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Case closed. Game over.  IMHO!  With all due respect. Loving you all.

 

If it becomes a legal matter the only thing being contested will be whether the selection process of the umpires was valid.  You can't take a judgement balk call to court LOL. Christ, the dumb a$$ who called this balk need to have his head examined.  And as for the interference mentioned in the newspaper article, I looked at the video half a dozen times and from the angle shot I couldn't see anything worth calling.  Let the kids play decide the game.

 

 

 

You have a timestamp on the FPSR supposed interference?  I really would like to look at it, but don't want to take the time to find it.

 

 

Right around 26:40 or so.  Now I don't do high school ball anymore so I could be wrong, but I couldn't see anything.

[RichMSN]

 

 

 

I wouldn't have called the balk either. Let me make that clear.  But if this becomes a legal matter, all that will be matter is that it IS a balk. The video is clear, he doesn't stop and the ump calls it immediatley NOT knowing that the ball hit is fair or foul. (It was only foul by 2-3 feet?)

 

A judge is going to look at 2 things.

"Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Case closed. Game over.  IMHO!  With all due respect. Loving you all.

 

If it becomes a legal matter the only thing being contested will be whether the selection process of the umpires was valid.  You can't take a judgement balk call to court LOL. Christ, the dumb a$$ who called this balk need to have his head examined.  And as for the interference mentioned in the newspaper article, I looked at the video half a dozen times and from the angle shot I couldn't see anything worth calling.  Let the kids play decide the game.

 

 

 

You have a timestamp on the FPSR supposed interference?  I really would like to look at it, but don't want to take the time to find it.

 

 

Right around 26:40 or so.  Now I don't do high school ball anymore so I could be wrong, but I couldn't see anything.

 

 

It looked to me like he needed to extend an arm to reach the base and he slid in the direction of the fielder.  Not by much, but he's not sliding straight into the base.

 

To me, and I'll admit that I wish I had better video, this looks like a FPSR violation and interference.

[johnnyg08]

I always find it funny that there are two groups of people who love the Texas system of the coaches picking the umpires -- the coaches AND the umpires who are in the favor of enough coaches to fill up their post-season schedules.

Exactly!

[UMP45]

Some people call coach Bart a sore loser and other names but the kids work hard all season and do not deserve to end their senior year like that. They say UIL never allows a replay of a game but I am assuming that is with the proper umpire selection and procedure.

Fanboy!

[UMP45]

 

 

Seems on the video the ump called it right away, the pitcher did not stop in his delivery. The ump can be seen calling that before the camera moves to follow the foul ball.

This video might help. To accuse umps of inpropriety is a hard sell. Pitcher was in stretch, not wind up with bases loaded.

 

Hate when lawyers get involved in any game.

 

He paused long enough in that situation.  Are you really going to call a balk there?  No way, horrible judgement.

 

 

I agree with you.  100%.  Look, we can all sit at our keyboards and be great umpires.  

 

Did the pitcher come to a complete and discernible stop?  No, didn't look like he did from the video.

 

Is it, technically, a balk, according to the NFHS rulebook?  Yes, it is.

 

Now, let's look at the situation.  It's R2+R3.  Exactly what advantage is the pitcher getting here?  Is he holding a runner closer?  Is he quick pitching by not coming to a complete and discernible stop? No.

 

For me, balking in a run at ANY TIME needs to be one I can defend -- it needs to be an elephant OR it needs to put the offense at a real disadvantage by situation.

 

I know some here will be turned off by this, but I have no desire to be known as the umpire who called a chicken-###### balk that ended a playoff game.

 

In other words I don't have the cajones to make that call!

[RichMSN]

I have the balls to call whatever is called for. I've worked enough games to know the difference, too. If I'm balking in a run, every umpire posting to this board should look at it and go, yep, that's a balk.

Matter of fact, that's true for ANY balk, run or no.

Anytime is a horrible, horrible time to pick that nit.

Sent via Android phone on Tapatalk2

[bam]

In other words I don't have the cajones to make that call!

 

 

Dude, chillax.

 

That's a call that absolutely doesn't have to be made.

 

Call what needs to be called, but in that situation?  That balk?  

 

And to add to the discussion - it had to be U3 that called that, right?  I could see the other 3, and no one was throwing their hands up with "TIME!"

[mstaylor]

Absolutely a FPSR at second, that ends the game and the balk never happens. 

[bam]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "absolutely", but a case could be made. 

 

IMHO, that's a call that can be justified far more easily than the balk.  FPSR violation right there would require some "cajones"....

[bam]

Also - the guy umpiring first isn't going to win any "hustle" awards any time soon.  

[Richvee]

The no-call on the  FPSR is at 26:30

nevermind....somehow I missed pg 2 of the thread     

[RichMSN]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "absolutely", but a case could be made. 

 

IMHO, that's a call that can be justified far more easily than the balk.  FPSR violation right there would require some "cajones"....

 

It would require drawers?

 

That's one I'd call in a heartbeat if I was there and saw a slide to the inside.  Maybe I have selective cojones since I've been told I don't have one on the balk / no balk that ended the game.

[dumbdumb]

Why would someone umpire a game without a call from the UIL for those who work for the UIL or know about the UIL. If I receive a call from a coach, I will call the UIL to confirm that the UIL knows about this and I would also be asking the UIL why a coach is calling me and not them. What gives????????????

 

When should a call for not coming to a complete stop be enforced. If coming to a complete stop does not mess anyone up, why is that a rule. I figure if the runner at any base needs to know when to start running towards the next base or to home at the first possible instance for a squeeze play, then not stopping prevents the runner from getting that quick first jump, it causes it too be delayed just a fraction and the pitcher gains the advantage. When is the complete stop rule to be enforced. I am confused.

[Jimurray]

This is conjecture on my part. The pitcher is pushing the limit on the stop. (If you call on the border you know that nobody cares about a stop in most of the non sanctioned leagues and I'm guessing in all of Mexico). The EP coach is barking about no stop. U3 figures the pitcher is hearing the barking and will give him a proper stop ( I had a marginally proper one in the video) . The pitcher thinks FU, I'm doing what I'm doing. He paid for it.

[mstaylor]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "absolutely", but a case could be made. 

 

IMHO, that's a call that can be justified far more easily than the balk.  FPSR violation right there would require some "cajones"....

I don't think so, he slid to the right after the fielder, then the fielder throws the ball way off the mark. That is the very reason for the rule. As an umpire you don't go out to show your knowledge of arcane rules but if you are going to umpire Fed there are rules in place that are there for safety and others for sportsmanship. The FPSR is both and in the case both sides of the rule was violated. 

I did a regional semi in soccer several years ago. I was a flag on the coach's sideline, a very good ref was in the middle. We are in the second overtime, not far from shootout, a girl drives for the net, the defender struck her, driving her sideways, a no brainer foul. The center calls the foul, awards a PK, girl scores, game over. We almost needed a police escort, everybody screaming we had to let them decide it on the field. We did, offense drives, defense wacks her, penalty kick, game over. 

In this case, the runner chose to try to take the fielder out, call the interference, let the players deal with it. 

[johnnyg08]

where's the video of the game?

[Thunderheads]

where's the video of the game?

post #11

[zm1283]

I still don't think F1 rolled through his stop at all.  I think that would be picking nits with only R1 in the first inning.  It's really picking nits in a tie game with a runner on third in the 7th inning.

[VAUmp]

Here is my dream scenario with this:

 

All the ambulance chasers get involved.  The schools both pay thousands of dollars in legal fees.  The judge grants a re-do with both teams and that the umpires are selected through the normal protocol.

 

At the game site, the umpires walk on the field, and the UIL has chosen the same four guys to call the game!