Who has the touch?

[tankmjg24]

Had a game yesterday and ran into this situation.  R2 and R3 with 1 out and a 2 man umpire crew.  FED rules if it matters.  Batter hits a fly ball into straight away center that was hit rather nicely.  BU is in C position and takes the catch no catch.  The ball is hit over F8 head and travels to the fence and the batter ends up on 2nd and R2 and R3 scores.  So with the touch of the bases, which umpire has which base?  Thanks

 

[johnnyg08]

BU 1st & 2nd

 

PU 3rd & home

[Thunderheads]

BU 1st & 2nd

 

PU 3rd & home

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[maven]

I'm guessing you're really asking about the BR's touch at 1B here. R3 doesn't touch anything but HP, which is obviously PU's call, and R2 will touch 3B and HP, both to be watched by PU.

 

This can be a challenging play for BU with a speedy BR: usually the ball is down in time to peek at the BR's touch at 1B. But priority must go to the catch/no catch: don't cheat that call to glance at the runner. Stay with it until it's done (we had a thread on this general issue recently).

 

For your play, it was a standup double anyway, so the BR would get no advantage from missing the base (unless he tried to get 3B).

 

If you have to miss the touch, so be it. You simply cannot grant an appeal of that touch, since you didn't see a miss. When the DC comes out and asks, "How can you deny that appeal?" the correct answer is: "Coach, that's the $50/$60/$70 question — one more umpire and we'd have it all covered!"

[tankmjg24]

So now that I have a few responses I will describe what took place. 

 

I watched R3 cross the plate then turned to watch R2 touch 3rd then the plate as well.  At the conclusion of the play the coach for the team in the field screams out that the batter runner missed first and to appeal it.  F1 with the ball throws to F3 who is standing on 1st.  My partner looks at 1st and turns to me and points at me.  I have no idea so I try to point back to him in a way that no one could tell.  He just stood there looking at me so I signal safe.  The coach has a moment of fireworks inside the dugout but never comes out on either of us.  In between innings as he is going to coach 3rd he stops by and tells me that he is not mad at myself as he knows it is the field umpires call but that he has to be looking for that.

 

So in saying the above, what can I do (if anything) in order to try and make our crew look like we know what we are doing without making myself look horrible? 

[MidAmUmp]

the correct answer is: "Coach, that's the $50/$60/$70 question — one more umpire and we'd have it all covered!"

I'll bet your assigner loves you...

[Thunderheads]

So now that I have a few responses I will describe what took place. 

 

I watched R3 cross the plate then turned to watch R2 touch 3rd then the plate as well.  At the conclusion of the play the coach for the team in the field screams out that the batter runner missed first and to appeal it.  F1 with the ball throws to F3 who is standing on 1st.  My partner looks at 1st and turns to me and points at me.  I have no idea so I try to point back to him in a way that no one could tell.  He just stood there looking at me so I signal safe.  The coach has a moment of fireworks inside the dugout but never comes out on either of us.  In between innings as he is going to coach 3rd he stops by and tells me that he is not mad at myself as he knows it is the field umpires call but that he has to be looking for that.

 

So in saying the above, what can I do (if anything) in order to try and make our crew look like we know what we are doing without making myself look horrible? 

Tell your base partner next time that he's got touches of first and second ........pregame it everytime

[NFUA_44]

The coach has a moment of fireworks inside the dugout but never comes out on either of us.  In between innings as he is going to coach 3rd he stops by and tells me that he is not mad at myself as he knows it is the field umpires call but that he has to be looking for that.

 

"I understand coach.  We will work harder for you."

 

About the only neutral thing you can offer here while still acknowledging that it happened.  He obviously knows who is supposed to make the call so trying to gloss it over isn't going to help you out and may turn it into a kettle of fish you don't want to tip over.  This way you acknowledge him, and let him know you'll do what you can to prevent it from happening again, as a team.  Keep everything as "we" even if you partner is dumb enough to try and roll you up under the bus by pointing at you.

 

I would avoid any discussion of umpire mechanics with a coach on the field, or off the field for that fact.  There can be so many variations of mechanics if you start getting into the way you do things and he see's it done different somewhere else your opening a can of worms for the next crew.  Keep it simple, acknowledge the mistake without getting into details, and move it along.

 

Obviously me and the partner are having a very long conversation after the game. 

[grayhawk]

It's a hole in the 2 man system.  PU can try to help on the BR's touch at first, but his first responsibility is R3's touch of home and R2's touch of 3rd and home.  BU clearly needs to stay with the ball, since his primary responsibility is catch/no catch.

 

I wouldn't suggest for them to pay for another umpire, but I would be more than happy to explain the above to him.  It's just a fact and one that we all have to live with.

[noumpere]

 

BU 1st & 2nd

 

PU 3rd & home

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Yes, but a good PU can help with BRs touch at first.

[maven]

So when the coach responds with "Well Maven, they do Rookie League, Advanced Rookie League, Short-A, Long-A, and Advanced-A with 2 umpires and they seem to do the job just fine. Why the f*** are you telling me you need an extra umpire out here in a lower level of baseball?" what do you do?

The point I'm making is that response leads to nothing but trouble.

But that's just it: the hole is there in pro ball too, and they DON'T do the job just fine. They might cover better than the OP, or they might use an advanced mechanic such as the PU picking up the touch at 1B if possible. But it might NOT be possible, and they might miss it. And a third (pro) umpire would NOT miss it.

I would not seriously suggest to a coach that he hadn't hired enough umpires. Hence the smilie in my original post. If you prefer never to employ humor with coaches, then don't use it. Certainly some coaches (and some umpires) have no sense of humor. In my experience, some do. Like everything else in game management, knowing when and how to joke is an art.

[maven]

My partner looks at 1st and turns to me and points at me.  I have no idea so I try to point back to him in a way that no one could tell.  He just stood there looking at me so I signal safe.

Two concrete suggestions for this type of case.

 

1. When he points at you regarding his call, you've got a problem. Call time and go discuss it. Don't point back and forth, and certainly don't make any signal for his call. Even if you have info for him, go out and talk.

 

2. When you go out there, remind him that it's his call. If neither of you saw the runner miss the base, he cannot grant the appeal. He must signal his ruling on the appeal. If the coach complains, it's up to him to explain (though if he's a novice you can help there).

[Jimurray]

BU 1st & 2nd

 

PU 3rd & home

Jim Evans also has BU take BR touch of 3B. Makes sense as you are there for the play normally.