Balk?

[mrumpiresir]

Well played JV game between two schools that have very good programs.  

With R1 and R3, pitcher has come set and is beginning his motion to the plate.  Catcher yells "Step Off" but pitcher has raised his non-pivot foot off the ground and freezes at that point. After a brief pause he delivers the pitch.  

I called a balk for starting and stopping. 

 

Coach ask why and I said "starting and stopping". 

Coach: Well that's legal, he can stop.

Me: No, once he starts that move he must  deliver "without interruption".  He can't hang his leg.

 

Coach insisted he could raise his leg and come to a complete stop.  I disagreed.

 

What do you think?

 

[JHSump]

You are correct.

 

NFHS rules, 6.2.4 Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher's plate is a balk:

 

d. failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery;

[maven]

Coming to a complete stop during delivery is a balk in all codes. Your justification, "starting and stopping," is correct.

 

But remember, for this to be a balk, absolutely his entire body must be completely still. If he turns his head, wiggles his glove, etc. it's legal.

 

He would need to stop for a long time for me to balk this at that level. He didn't get any advantage from it.

[Rich Ives]

 

Well played JV game between two schools that have very good programs.  

With R1 and R3, pitcher has come set and is beginning his motion to the plate.  Catcher yells "Step Off" but pitcher has raised his non-pivot foot off the ground and freezes at that point. After a brief pause he delivers the pitch.  

I called a balk for starting and stopping. 

 

Coach ask why and I said "starting and stopping". 

Coach: Well that's legal, he can stop.

Me: No, once he starts that move he must  deliver "without interruption".  He can't hang his leg.

 

Coach insisted he could raise his leg and come to a complete stop.  I disagreed.

 

What do you think?

 

 

He can hang his leg if he keeps something else moving.

[bam]

I've heard the "hanging leg is legal if something else is moving" line before. Parse the rule any way you want, if a pitcher hangs his leg, it's a balk. It's going to be called a balk at all levels, so give that argument up. Rats will be rats, and some of the more virulent strains will coach their pitchers to do it just to argue with the umpire.

In summary, hang the leg at your own peril. If I'm on that game, runners advance.

[BigSimonia]

I've heard the "hanging leg is legal if something else is moving" line before. Parse the rule any way you want, if a pitcher hangs his leg, it's a balk. It's going to be called a balk at all levels, so give that argument up. Rats will be rats, and some of the more virulent strains will coach their pitchers to do it just to argue with the umpire.

In summary, hang the leg at your own peril. If I'm on that game, runners advance.

Sounds like we have a new Code to consider in addition to the usual 3: OBR; NCAA; FED - NFBR*

 

* "National Federation of BAM Rules"

[maven]

I've heard the "hanging leg is legal if something else is moving" line before. Parse the rule any way you want, if a pitcher hangs his leg, it's a balk. It's going to be called a balk at all levels, so give that argument up. Rats will be rats, and some of the more virulent strains will coach their pitchers to do it just to argue with the umpire.

In summary, hang the leg at your own peril. If I'm on that game, runners advance.

 

Disagree. It's a balk for starting and stopping, or a double set. If something is stll moving, it's not stopping or coming set again.

 

I would like to see any rule or authoritative case justification for your ruling.

[BalkHawk]

F1 comes set, then begins his motion to pitch. His leg reaches its high point and then freezes. All the while F1 is flapping his glove.

(easy) Balk!

[maven]

Why? What rule has he violated?

[sdix00]

I gotta agree with Bam here.   

 

Technically, something is always moving.  If he is chewing gum, something is moving. 

 

This move is common in the Little Leagues in my parts.   I (no longer) allow F1 to hang his leg, check the runner at 3B and then either go to 3B or HP.   I require that he go to 3B or HP in one continuous motion, and hanging his leg while moving his head doesn't count. 

 

 

Now - 

The windup is completely different,  Be cause the start of his windup commits him to HP, he can hang his leg long enough for it to dry out as far as I am concerned.  Zero defensive advantage and smart runners will take advantage of it. 

[Rich Ives]

I gotta agree with Bam here.   

 

.   I require that he go to 3B or HP in one continuous motion, and hanging his leg while moving his head doesn't count. 

 

 

 

What is the rule basis?  Motion is motion.  If I hang my leg but keep my arms moving why would you say that doesn't meet the requirement?  

 

AND

 

If you are pitching correctly there is a very slight pause of your legs and torso at the balance point.

[bam]

 

I gotta agree with Bam here.   

 

.   I require that he go to 3B or

HP

in one continuous motion, and hanging his leg while moving his head doesn't count. 

 

 

What is the rule basis?  Motion is motion.  If I hang my leg but keep my arms moving why would you say that doesn't meet the requirement?  

 

AND

 

If you are pitching correctly there is a very slight pause of your legs and torso at the balance point.

 

Here's your rule reference:

 

ART. 3 . . . For the set position, the pitcher shall have the ball in either his

gloved hand or his pitching hand. His pitching hand shall be down at his side or

behind his back. Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire nonpivot

foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher’s plate

and with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher’s

plate. He shall go to the set position without interruption and in one continuous

motion. He shall come to a complete and discernible stop (a change of direction

is not considered an acceptable stop) with the ball in both hands in front of the

body and his glove at or below his chin. Natural preliminary motions such as only

one stretch may be made. During these preliminary motions and during the set

position until a delivery motion occurs, the pitcher may turn on his pivot foot or

lift it in a jump turn to step with the non-pivot foot toward a base while throwing

or feinting as outlined in 6-2-4 and 2-28-5, or he may lift his pivot foot in a step

backward off the pitcher’s plate which must be in or partially within the 24-inch

length of the pitcher’s plate. In order to change to the wind-up position, he must

first step clearly backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot first. After the

pitcher has placed his pivot foot on the ground clearly behind the plate, he then

has the right to throw or feint to a base the same as that of any other infielder.

 

So there's your rule reference.  He stopped. His head was moving forward?  Didn't see it.  His glove was moving forward?  Nope.  His d!ck was swinging because he's not wearing a jock?  Why are you looking there, ya rat?

 

Argue all you want.  It's a judgment call.  Argue a judgment call and I'll happily send you packing. 

 

What the hanging leg does is try to gain an advantage not intended by the rules.  You know it.  I know it.  In the end, I make the call and you live with it.

 

Rat. 

[JaxRolo]

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

[Rich Ives]

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

[sdix00]

 

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

 

 

 

I get your point, and it's a good one.  But all I can tell you is that I interpret a frozen leg as non-continuous motion.    You as a coach and rules expert may argue that continuous motion means that some part of is body must be continuously in motion.   I as an umpire look at the move as being totally unnecessary and a bit of a travesty and since you asked. "Start stop, coach".

 

Mind you, I am not referring to a Japanese hitch in the free leg.   I am talking a completely unnecessary move designed to freeze runners.   Further, I would not let F1 throw to a base with this move either. 

 

Absent a case play, I am comfortable with this enforcement. 

[bleacher_bum]

IMO, head turning , gum chewing, eye blinking, nostril flaring and arm moving is simply movement, not continuous MOTION. 

just my 2 pennies...based on what it looked like at the time, I'd probably balk him.

[bam]

What about batting his eyes at the smokeshow in the stands?  The rat would consider that as making the hanging leg legal. 

[Thunderheads]

How about this question:

 

Let's see a rules basis that clarifies the OP is NOT a balk?

[maven]

How about this question:

 

Let's see a rules basis that clarifies the OP is NOT a balk?

 

With respect: you're barking up the wrong tree. If it's not prohibited, it's legal. The question is always locating a prohibition, not a permission.

[Thunderheads]

 

How about this question:

 

Let's see a rules basis that clarifies the OP is NOT a balk?

 

With respect: you're barking up the wrong tree. If it's not prohibited, it's legal. The question is always locating a prohibition, not a permission.

 

No, I'm not barking at all, I'm trying to see where it goes based on what you said above....

[NovaScotiaBlue]

 

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

 

The pitcher is employing a tactic that is being used to deceive the baserunner. That would make it a balk

[grayhawk]

 

 

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

 

The pitcher is employing a tactic that is being used to deceive the baserunner. That would make it a balk

 

 

We've been through this many times.  Deceiving the baserunner is not only legal, but it's part of F1's job.  Illegally deceiving the baserunner is a balk.  If it can't be described by one of the 13 listed balks, then having to explain it by "he deceived the runner" means it wasn't a balk.

[mstaylor]

 

 

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

 

The pitcher is employing a tactic that is being used to deceive the baserunner. That would make it a balk

 

Negative, it is a balk for not delivering in a continuous motion. Deception is only mentioned as a note added i the seventies as an instruction to umpires. It is to used as a tie breaker, not a basis. 

[jjskitours]

The requirement for F1 to come to a complete stop in the set position is to protect who - the batter or the runner? I'm having a problem seeing where F1 gains an advantage on the runner if he blows through the stop and pitches to the batter. Please explain.

[Mr Umpire]

 

 

I will take  Bam and Sdix's side on this one.

 

I will call the leg hanging every time.  

 

Same question - what is the rule basis?

 

The pitcher is employing a tactic that is being used to deceive the baserunner. That would make it a balk

 

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Not this argument again.