BR kicks ball after U3K, runs inside

[grayhawk]

13U Pony game Saturday (OBR).  I'm solo:

 

No runners, 2-2 count.  Batter swings and misses for strike 3 and F2 drops the ball and it rolls into fair territory.  Batter starts running and accidentally kicks the ball a couple of inches and keeps going.  He's straddling the 1B line all the way down to first and F2 fields it and launches it into RF (not a quality throw).  What do you have?

 

Here's what I did:

 

My first reaction was that since BR kicked the ball while fair that he shoud be out.  However, I let it play out and while he was about halfway to first, I realized that it's nothing unless I judge the kick to be intentional since it wasn't a batted ball.  Then I see BR running outside the running lane and think this could be interesting but then F2 launches it into RF, so I have nothing again.  After the play was over, F2 asks for time since F1 wanted to talk with him.  After their chat, F2 asks me if the batter kicked the ball, and I inform him that he did, but since it wasn't a batted ball and not intentional that it was nothing.  No coach said a word about any part of this play.

[sdix00]

Nothing.   I think this is where good timing habits pay off in unusual circumstances. 

[mstaylor]

I agree with Steve, good timing and good no call. 

[bam]

That spoiler thing is cool. 

 

How do you do that?

[mstaylor]

add your text[/spoiler

Add the end bracket to finish the BBcode

[GreyhoundAggie]

Wouldn't it be nothing even on a batted ball? I was under the impression interference is only called if you think it is intentional no matter batted ball or non-batted ball

[Mike Prince]

Wouldn't it be nothing even on a batted ball? I was under the impression interference is only called if you think it is intentional no matter batted ball or non-batted ball

 

if a batted ball contacts the batter in fair territory he is out, isn't he?

[UmpJM]

Greyhoundaggie,

 

If a runner is hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory he is out regardless of his intent.

 

JM

[D62 blue]

STEVE YOU'RE HAVING WAY TOO MUCH FUN , I CONCUR WITH THE GROUP NOTHING !

 

MARC

[Rich Ives]

Another vote for nothing

[Jimurray]

7.09(a) is changed this year with added comment. MLBUM also changed and batter is not protected in the vicinity of home plate. However, the umpire must judge "clearly hinders the catcher", which in this case it seems not.

[scrounge]

Ok, so help me out,  I'm having a brain cramp on a very similar play. Pretty much the exact same thing, except a batted ball (weak swing or bunt, can't remember) last week. Fed rules, runner straddling the line. F2 fields the ball and makes a very similar high throw - in my opinion, he threw high because of the runner, at least in part. Close play. Runner interference in FED?

[cyclonehokiece]

Ok, so help me out,  I'm having a brain cramp on a very similar play. Pretty much the exact same thing, except a batted ball (weak swing or bunt, can't remember) last week. Fed rules, runner straddling the line. F2 fields the ball and makes a very similar high throw - in my opinion, he threw high because of the runner, at least in part. Close play. Runner interference in FED?

No need for a quality throw in FED.  If F2 airmails it and batter-runner is out of the lane, you can bang him for the running lane.

[NFUA_44]

Before looking at your spoiler, I have Nada.

 

BtW guys, on an editorial note with the spoiler tags, if you quote something that has a spoiler in it the text will be revealed.  Warren is also working on adding a graphic symbol to the menu bar for the spoiler, in the mean time we have to use the old manual BBCode Michael posted.

[sdix00]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

[NFUA_44]

Steve,

From the JEA:

7.09 k

Professional Interpretation: One factor influencing the umpire's judgment on these plays is the quality of the
throw to first base. If a throw which has no realistic chance of retiring the batter-runner is made, the batter-runner
shall not be declared out for interference (lane violation) if he is hit by the throw or the fielder cannot make the
catch. The ball must be thrown for this rule to be invoked; otherwise, it is impossible for him to interfere with a fielder
“taking†a throw.
An allowance should be made for the batter-runner to step inside the foul line as he reaches the immediate
vicinity of first base; otherwise, the base is not readily accessible for him to touch since the runner's lane runs
adjacent and past the base in foul territory. However, a runner who has advanced the entire distance from home
plate to first in fair territory making no effort to run within the lane is not extended the same leniency as the runner
who runs in the lane as required and then cuts into fair territory near the base to touch it.
A batter-runner may be called out for a runner's lane violation when he is out of the lane on either side. This
decision is based on where the throw is originating.
A runner who has only one foot inside the lane or on a line defining the lane is not in compliance with this rule.
However, if one foot is in the lane or on the line and the other foot is in the air, he shall not be considered out of
the lane. Like the batter's box violation [(6.06(a)], a runner must have a foot on the ground outside the lane to be
in violation.
Situations: No one on...no outs. The batter is called out on "strike three". The pitch eludes the catcher and rolls
toward the first base dugout. The batter-runner takes off for first and is running in fair territory when the catcher's
throw to first hits him. He has advanced about two-thirds of the way to first when he is struck by the ball. Is he out?
RULING: In this case, the catcher made an errant throw. Though the batter-runner was not in his runner's lane,
208
his position when hit did not interfere with the first baseman taking a quality throw. The play stands.

I can post the rest of the verbiage if you need it.

 

FED has no verbiage relating to quality throw.

[Jimurray]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

Comes from a caseplay in FED. Thought I got it from Jim Evans in a Desert Classic a few years back for OBR. Might also be in the BRD but it's bedtime for me.

[grayhawk]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

 

Steve, it's a nuance in the wording.

 

OBR 6.05(k):  In running the last half of the distance from home base to first base, while the ball is being fielded to first base, he runs outside (to the right of) the three-foot line, or inside (to the left of) the foul line, and in the umpire’s judgment in so doing interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base, in which case the ball is dead

 

Fed 8-4-1g: he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base

 

Notice in Fed the absence of the language about the umpire judging that he interfered with the throw.  Hence, no requirement for a quality throw.

[D62 blue]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

check out for OBR 6.05 a batter is out when (j) , in the RIM there are several instructor comments and "the right call" , the key is a catchable throw !

for FED i dont have the reference currently ,

[noumpere]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

It was in one of the annual interps a few years ago.  Note that it is often overstated.  If for example, the runner is in fair territory but the throw comes from foul territory (say on a D3K) and the throw is bad then you dont need to get the interference.  Basically if the runner is "in the way" and out of the lane, then you'll get interference in FED.  It still requires a quality throw in OBR and NCAA.

[Jimurray]

I am having a hard time locating the source for quality throw in OBR and no quality throw needed in FED. 

 

  

I have taken for granted that there is a difference, but I can't find it?

 

Help. 

It was in one of the annual interps a few years ago.  Note that it is often overstated.  If for example, the runner is in fair territory but the throw comes from foul territory (say on a D3K) and the throw is bad then you dont need to get the interference.  Basically if the runner is "in the way" and out of the lane, then you'll get interference in FED.  It still requires a quality throw in OBR and NCAA.

FED 2010 INTERPS SIT 7:

SITUATION 7: B1 lays down a bunt that is fielded by F2 in fair territory a few feet in front of home plate. As B1 is 60 feet from home base, he is running outside the running lane with one foot completely in fair ground and not touching the lines of the running lane. F2 fields the ball and (a) attempts to throw to first but throws high into right field as he tries not to hit B1, or (b) does not attempt a throw. RULING: B1 is required to be in the running lane the last 45 feet to first base when the ball is fielded and thrown from an area behind him. In (a), this is interference and B1 is out and the ball is declared dead. In (b), since there was no throw, there is no interference. F2 is not required to hit B1 to demonstrate that B1 is out of the running lane, but a throw must be made for the interference to be declared. (8-4-1g

I thought it was a caseplay but it's no longer in there.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Greyhoundaggie,

 

If a runner is hit by a fair batted ball in fair territory he is out regardless of his intent.

 

JM

Duh. I'm an idiot. I was thinking dropped strike 3.

[dddunn3d]

Ok, so help me out,  I'm having a brain cramp on a very similar play. Pretty much the exact same thing, except a batted ball (weak swing or bunt, can't remember) last week. Fed rules, runner straddling the line. F2 fields the ball and makes a very similar high throw - in my opinion, he threw high because of the runner, at least in part. Close play. Runner interference in FED?

Remember, the running lane starts half-way to first base. The BR can be anywhere along the line-fair-foul as long as he enters the running lane where it starts.

 

Therefore, if in your example the weak hit/bunt only travels a few feet, F2 probably has fielded it long before the BR is required to be in his lane. No interference unless the BR is exceptionally fast and is actually running outside of the defined lane.

[Sayhey]

Running out if the running lane in itself is not illegal.you must interfere with the 1st baseman's attempt to "field" a throw. If the throw is rattling around the right field bullpen because the catcher threw poorly you do not have interference. You must interfere with a field able throw.

[mstaylor]

Running out if the running lane in itself is not illegal.you must interfere with the 1st baseman's attempt to "field" a throw. If the throw is rattling around the right field bullpen because the catcher threw poorly you do not have interference. You must interfere with a field able throw.

The discussion is Fed and as such the quality of throw is not an issue. In Fed you are judging the ability of the fielder to throw it, bad throw equals interference. Actually in Fed you are judging both.