Proper procedure

[ikeequa]

Hi,

Me again.

I was behind the plate. Batter hits a pop-up just in front of the plate. Catcher moves forward and ball ever so slightly hits glove and spins foul. I point fair ball and Batter Runner is safe at first. However, he thinks it's a foul ball and runs back to the plate, picks up his bat and gets in batter's box. I just stand around waiting for something to happen until the catcher realizes decides to tag the batter/batter runner at which time I call out.

 

What is the proper procedure in such a situation? Do I just get behind the plate and wait for the pitch and in doing so creating an improper batter, or did I get it right?

 

Thanks.

[johnnyg08]

Hi,

Me again.

I was behind the plate. Batter hits a pop-up just in front of the plate. Catcher moves forward and ball ever so slightly hits glove and spins foul. I point fair ball and Batter Runner is safe at first. However, he thinks it's a foul ball and runs back to the plate, picks up his bat and gets in batter's box. I just stand around waiting for something to happen until the catcher realizes decides to tag the batter/batter runner at which time I call out.

 

What is the proper procedure in such a situation? Do I just get behind the plate and wait for the pitch and in doing so creating an improper batter, or did I get it right?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Once he passes home plate, (on his way back) he's out.  

[JaxRolo]

^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^

 

Close the thread

[noumpere]

WTF was the first or third base coach doing?

[Jocko]

Stop calling tee ball

[Dannytheman]

Hi,

Me again.

I was behind the plate. Batter hits a pop-up just in front of the plate. Catcher moves forward and ball ever so slightly hits glove and spins foul. I point fair ball and Batter Runner is safe at first. However, he thinks it's a foul ball and runs back to the plate, picks up his bat and gets in batter's box. I just stand around waiting for something to happen until the catcher realizes decides to tag the batter/batter runner at which time I call out.

 

What is the proper procedure in such a situation? Do I just get behind the plate and wait for the pitch and in doing so creating an improper batter, or did I get it right?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Once he passes home plate, (on his way back) he's out.  

Coulda been a lefty.  He wouldn't pass the plate coming back then. Just sayin'!

[grayhawk]

7.08  Any runner is out when -

 

(2) after touching first base, he leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

 

Rule 7.08(a) Comment: Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the base path heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases.

 

Granted, he wasn't going to the dugout or his (defensive) position, but he clearly abandoned his effort to run the bases.  OUT!

[mjr_2013]

If you can see the gears grinding in F2's head to where he is about to tag him, let him tag him... It looks a lot better on you that way... But if everyone is about to reset as if it was foul, then you have no choice but to call the out on abandonment.

 

I think this is probably avoidable if you sell the fair call though. As the batter is coming back, just keep that hand pointing fair and SOMEONE should notice and react.

[Rich Ives]

7.08  Any runner is out when -

 

(2) after touching first base, he leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

 

Rule 7.08(a) Comment: Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the base path heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases.

 

Granted, he wasn't going to the dugout or his (defensive) position, but he clearly abandoned his effort to run the bases.  OUT!

 

Don't forget about this ^^^^ part.

 

He didn't abandon.  He did retreat too far though - out for that.

[BalkHawk]

If you were standing there pointing the ball fair, I bet they would have figured out sooner. although if they assumed it foul without you voicing anything, who knows what they were doing. 

 

[James Walker]

WTF was the first or third base coach doing?

What they do best... Not paying attention cause he's looking for an excuse to start a $hitstorm.

[ikeequa]

I don't know what they were thinking, there was a play at first and the BU called him safe. For some reason the first base coach told his batter it was a foul ball.

 

As soon as I said the ball hit the catcher's glove, the coaches went back to their dugouts.

 

I just want to make sure that I get it right in the future.

[noumpere]

I don't know what they were thinking, there was a play at first and the BU called him safe. For some reason the first base coach told his batter it was a foul ball.

 

.

If as the umpire you hear that, anyone for telling them that it was really fair?  I'm not saying to tell the runner to "stay there" because that's clearly coaching, but maybe the former stops the wierd play.

[Jocko]

Just stand there and keep pointing fair. Someone is bound to figure it out sooner or later. Don't move. Don't speak. Just point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I said ^ before I realized there was a play at 1B and BU signaled him safe. I'm in the camp of abandonment, considering this info. If the stupid coach doesn't know enough to keep his runner on base he's certainly not going to know how to argue my abandonment call.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Jocko

[umpcoachfather]

Did the pitcher take the signs from the rubber?

[ikeequa]

No. I stood to the side of the plate and watched what everyone was doing. The batter got into the batter's box and I guess my look of bewilderment convinced the catcher to apply a tag.

[MidAmUmp]

Obviously there was some question as to the ball being fair.  If you have used good mechanics and emphatically signaled the ball fair several times and they can't figure it out, then he's out for abandonment.

 

I would throw this out there...consider the level of play/competition.  If we're talking 9 or 10 year old non-competitive ball, I'm not opposed to calling time, telling the teams the ball was fair and letting the kid to go back to 1st.  Any higher levels than that, I'm not so nice.

[Jocko]

Obviously there was some question as to the ball being fair.  If you have used good mechanics and emphatically signaled the ball fair several times and they can't figure it out, then he's out for abandonment. I would throw this out there...consider the level of play/competition.  If we're talking 9 or 10 year old non-competitive ball, I'm not opposed to calling time, telling the teams the ball was fair and letting the kid to go back to 1st.  Any higher levels than that, I'm not so nice.

While I don't disagree, I personally wouldn't. Get the out and let the 1BC learn the hard way. Bet he never forgets THAT lesson. Plus, the out gets me closer to :

[ikeequa]

These were adults, I immediately pointed fair until the runner had reached first just to let the catcher know that I saw the ball hit his glove. The BU called safe loud and clear. Since we're not supposed to yell FAIR for fear of confusion, I don't know what else we could have done.

[VolUmp]

Ikeequa,

 

This is just a weird a$$ situation with adults playing.

 

I'm guessing that your fair point could have been a whole lot more obvious, but regardless, if the 1B Coach told the runner it's foul after your partner called him safe, you're WAY off the hook.

 

To answer your question if you got it right and how you would do it in the future, the BR did abandon ... regardless of Rich Ives splitting hairs ... he abandoned.  Pre-touching 1B it's referred to as DESERTING ... after touching 1B it's called ABANDONING.  The rulebook is slightly flawed by not throwing in the example of the batter walking back to the batter's box thinking that ball was foul. 

 

Just realize that if you actually let him hit, you would be wrong.  You can call him out for abandoning without a tag, or you can call him out on the tag if you wish, but the way you describe this, I think you would have allowed another pitch if he wasn't tagged.  And I'm not sure what you would have had for the count.  I suppose you would have called the fair ball a strike ... but if there were two strikes already ... geeeeeeeeze .... you'd be allowing a batter to hit with three strikes who already abandoned.

 

Evidently F3 believed the 1B coach, or he would have chased him down and tagged him and looked at you asking for abandonment.

[grayhawk]

Ikeequa,

 

This is just a weird a$$ situation with adults playing.

 

I'm guessing that your fair point could have been a whole lot more obvious, but regardless, if the 1B Coach told the runner it's foul after your partner called him safe, you're WAY off the hook.

 

To answer your question if you got it right and how you would do it in the future, the BR did abandon ... regardless of Rich Ives splitting hairs ... he abandoned.  Pre-touching 1B it's referred to as DESERTING ... after touching 1B it's called ABANDONING.  The rulebook is slightly flawed by not throwing in the example of the batter walking back to the batter's box thinking that ball was foul. 

 

Just realize that if you actually let him hit, you would be wrong.  You can call him out for abandoning without a tag, or you can call him out on the tag if you wish, but the way you describe this, I think you would have allowed another pitch if he wasn't tagged.  And I'm not sure what you would have had for the count.  I suppose you would have called the fair ball a strike ... but if there were two strikes already ... geeeeeeeeze .... you'd be allowing a batter to hit with three strikes who already abandoned.

 

Evidently F3 believed the 1B coach, or he would have chased him down and tagged him and looked at you asking for abandonment.

 

IIRC, "deserting" is a J/R manufactured term, and is not supported by an actual rule or official (MLBUM, PBUC) interpretation.

[VolUmp]

Grayhawk, agreed ... but what do you call it if a player grounds back to F1, pitcher throws to F3, pulled off the bag, Ump calls SAFE ... and BR just peels off for his dugout thinking he's out?  If you call that abandonment, that's fine, but OBR specifies that Abandonment happens after the BR touches 1B.  I think Jaksa and Roder created the term to fill in the blank .....

[ikeequa]

Wild,

I stood next to the foul line and pointed fair until the batter had reached first. Don't know what else I could have done.

If I had let him bat again, then we have an improper batter. If I see it right, we would have had an out for abandonment and then an improper batter that not even the scorer would have noticed without asking. The defense could have theoretically gone for an intentional walk and then appealed for an easy 2 outs.

I wasn't going to let him bat. I refused to get into position. I just prayed that the catcher would place the tag. My biggest problem was that it was my first or second year and wasn't sure what to do. I knew if he had walked back to the dugout he was out, but didn't what to do when he got back in the box.