on deck batter interference ?

[D62 blue]

This happened tdy , travel ball 14U playing fed rules . outs dont matter , bases empty . batter hits line drive somewhere (dont remember to who ) , into out field , not handled cleanly , defense tries to throw out Br at 1st , wild throw goes towards on deck batter , still in play . On deck is trying to stay out of the way ball touches (briefly) on deck batter in one way or another , ball is bouncing around at his feet and off the wood at bottom of the dugout area , F2 who was trailing play in foul ground to back up throw , is grasping for the ball while on deck is doing his best to NOT interfere . mean while Br has advanced to 2nd .

Do you have any ruling ? or a verbal "that's nothing " . Ill let others respond before i tell what the OC and DC said .

Marc

[spiritump]

if you as the umpire have nothing(that what it sounds like) then give a safe signal that lets all know that you saw the play and nothing happened

[UmpJM]

D62,

 

In your sitch, the defense has misplayed the ball and is not "in the act of fielding" - they are chasing a loose ball. Therefore, there is nothing to interfere with.

 

The on-deck batter is allowed, by rule, to be on the field of play. As long as he makes a "good faith" effort (in your judgment) to avoid hindering the defense, he is not liable to an interference call, even should the ball hit him.

 

I concur with spiritump that a "That's nothing!" mechanic might not be a bad idea.

 

JM

[D62 blue]

D62,

 

In your sitch, the defense has misplayed the ball and is not "in the act of fielding" - they are chasing a loose ball. Therefore, there is nothing to interfere with.

 

The on-deck batter is allowed, by rule, to be on the field of play. As long as he makes a "good faith" effort (in your judgment) to avoid hindering the defense, he is not liable to an interference call, even should the ball hit him.

 

I concur with spiritump that a "That's nothing!" mechanic might not be a bad idea.

 

JM

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

[Thunderheads]

D62,

 

In your sitch, the defense has misplayed the ball and is not "in the act of fielding" - they are chasing a loose ball. Therefore, there is nothing to interfere with.

 

The on-deck batter is allowed, by rule, to be on the field of play. As long as he makes a "good faith" effort (in your judgment) to avoid hindering the defense, he is not liable to an interference call, even should the ball hit him.

 

I concur with spiritump that a "That's nothing!" mechanic might not be a bad idea.

 

JM

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

Marc,

 

What actually happened?  Did the OP happen, or did your "change" happen?

[renegadewolf]

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

[JaxRolo]

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

 

I take it the coaches didn't show up that day?

[Rich Ives]

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

 

 

So what did he interfere with? 

[noumpere]

D62,

 

In your sitch, the defense has misplayed the ball and is not "in the act of fielding" - they are chasing a loose ball. Therefore, there is nothing to interfere with.

 

The on-deck batter is allowed, by rule, to be on the field of play. As long as he makes a "good faith" effort (in your judgment) to avoid hindering the defense, he is not liable to an interference call, even should the ball hit him.

 

I concur with spiritump that a "That's nothing!" mechanic might not be a bad idea.

 

JM

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

Well then its intentional intereference but hes authorized to be there so use the god rule and decide what would of happened.  Since its the offence that interfered give the benefit of the doubt to the defense so probably return runners unless its certain they had the next base made.

[D62 blue]

 

D62,

 

In your sitch, the defense has misplayed the ball and is not "in the act of fielding" - they are chasing a loose ball. Therefore, there is nothing to interfere with.

 

The on-deck batter is allowed, by rule, to be on the field of play. As long as he makes a "good faith" effort (in your judgment) to avoid hindering the defense, he is not liable to an interference call, even should the ball hit him.

 

I concur with spiritump that a "That's nothing!" mechanic might not be a bad idea.

 

JM

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

Marc,

 

What actually happened?  Did the OP happen, or did your "change" happen?

OP did happen in my gm Sunday , the change in play was just to encourage dialogue  .

marc

[semper_fi_72]

So lets change it a little more.

 

On deck batter stops balls and tosses it to F2.

F2 throw to 2B and BR now going to 2B is tagged out.

 

What are you going to call?

[spiritump]

So lets change it a little more.

 

On deck batter stops balls and tosses it to F2.

F2 throw to 2B and BR now going to 2B is tagged out.

 

What are you going to call?

 

 

As soon as the on deck batter picks up the ball--time is called--and I will call the runner nearest to home out--got to get a out.

[semper_fi_72]

This happened tdy , travel ball 14U playing fed rules . outs dont matter , bases empty . batter hits line drive somewhere (dont remember to who ) , into out field , not handled cleanly , defense tries to throw out Br at 1st , wild throw goes towards on deck batter , still in play . On deck is trying to stay out of the way ball touches (briefly) on deck batter in one way or another , ball is bouncing around at his feet and off the wood at bottom of the dugout area , F2 who was trailing play in foul ground to back up throw , is grasping for the ball while on deck is doing his best to NOT interfere . mean while Br has advanced to 2nd .

Do you have any ruling ? or a verbal "that's nothing " . Ill let others respond before i tell what the OC and DC said .

Marc

 

From 2011 BRD

Fed

OFF INTEREP 222-309:HOPKINS:If an on deck batter picks up a live ball: With runners not moving, the ball is simply dead; with runners moving, the ball is dead and the runner on whom the defense would have played is out.  If the umpire cannot determine which runner, the one nearer to home is out".

 

So questions before a ruling can be made.

1.  Where there runners moving that a play could be made on?  If not ball is simply dead.

2.  If there was runner moving, then you need to decide who the play can be made on and call them out.  If I have a R2 now standing on 3B and the BR is the only one moving towards 2B, he is being called out.

[JaxRolo]

This happened tdy , travel ball 14U playing fed rules . outs dont matter , bases empty . batter hits line drive somewhere (dont remember to who ) , into out field , not handled cleanly , defense tries to throw out Br at 1st , wild throw goes towards on deck batter , still in play . On deck is trying to stay out of the way ball touches (briefly) on deck batter in one way or another , ball is bouncing around at his feet and off the wood at bottom of the dugout area , F2 who was trailing play in foul ground to back up throw , is grasping for the ball while on deck is doing his best to NOT interfere . mean while Br has advanced to 2nd .

Do you have any ruling ? or a verbal "that's nothing " . Ill let others respond before i tell what the OC and DC said .

Marc

From 2011 BRD

Fed

OFF INTEREP 222-309:HOPKINS:If an on deck batter picks up a live ball: With runners not moving, the ball is simply dead; with runners moving, the ball is dead and the runner on whom the defense would have played is out. If the umpire cannot determine which runner, the one nearer to home is out".

So questions before a ruling can be made.

1. Where there runners moving that a play could be made on? If not ball is simply dead.

2. If there was runner moving, then you need to decide who the play can be made on and call them out. If I have a R2 now standing on 3B and the BR is the only one moving towards 2B, he is being called out.

Good post!

[semper_fi_72]

So lets change it a little more.

 

On deck batter stops balls and tosses it to F2.

F2 throw to 2B and BR now going to 2B is tagged out.

 

What are you going to call?

 

 

As soon as the on deck batter picks up the ball--time is called--and I will call the runner nearest to home out--got to get a out.

 

Not necessarily the correct call by the rule interpretation.

See my previous post quoting the BRD interp.

[grayhawk]

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

 

So if this dummy had just done what he was supposed to do, the ball would have gone out of play and he would have been awarded third.  If he was really heads up, he may have made it to second during the rundown and been awarded home.

[Rich Ives]

 

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

 

So if this dummy had just done what he was supposed to do, the ball would have gone out of play and he would have been awarded third.  If he was really heads up, he may have made it to second during the rundown and been awarded home.

 

He would have been awarded second.  Two bases from his physical position at the time of the throw.

[grayhawk]

 

 

JM , ill change the play a bit , what if the on deck picked up the ball and handed to F2 ?

how would you or not rule the play now ?

thanks Marc

 

I had a BR who was awarded 1B on a walk, went to drop his bat at the dugout and stood there to watch a rundown progressing involving R3.  Long story short throw back to catcher is an overthrow, R3 scores, ball rolls towards cutout in the fence heading out of play and the BR (still standing there) stops the ball with his foot, picks up the ball and tosses it to F2.

 

So if this dummy had just done what he was supposed to do, the ball would have gone out of play and he would have been awarded third.  If he was really heads up, he may have made it to second during the rundown and been awarded home.

 

He would have been awarded second.  Two bases from his physical position at the time of the throw.

 

If he had hustled down to first, instead of standing there with his thumb up his butt, I have to think he would have reached it at TOT depending on how many throws in the rundown before the one that went out of play.

[semper_fi_72]

So, still waiting for what actually was called during the game in the OP.

[D62 blue]

So, still waiting for what actually was called during the game in the OP.

In my play on Sunday , i gave a safe and "that's nothing" verbal mechanic . F2 got control of the ball , BR was standing @2B by then , neither coach had any comment/question about what just happened or my ruling . F1 was complaining a bit to me , i just ignored him (14U) level . And we played on , final score 2-1 , it was 0-0 till bottom of 5th , all good fun . 

Marc

[Fittske24]

So lets change it a little more.

 

On deck batter stops balls and tosses it to F2.

F2 throw to 2B and BR now going to 2B is tagged out.

 

What are you going to call?

I'm gonna call my assigner and tell him I don't want to umpire tee-ball anymore! :)

[jjskitours]

I'm sure this has been asked and discussed before, but with the Fed Official Interpretation included in this thread, I have to ask the following. If the runner(s) have easily advanced to the next base or in your judgement there would have been no play on them, do you handle this the same as if the runner(s) were not moving. In other words, if on-deck batter intentionally picks up the ball and flips it to F-2, it is dead immediately and runner(s) stay where they are. No out is called and runners are not returned to previous base. I believe this is along the lines of what is called "weak interference". What say you? 

[BalkHawk]

you can't get INT without interference.

[jjskitours]

I agree, but is the "interference" by the on-deck batter that prompts the PU to immediately call "Time". No outs or awards in my example. Simply call "Time" and admonish ODB. 

[Jocko]

Last legally aquired base at TOI, right? So if R1 is almost to 2B when ODB INTENTIONALLY touches the ball, shouldn't we send him back? INT should have an out involved, though. But if DT had NO shot whatsoever at making any legitimate play on R1, it would be hard to sell. So either R1 (let's say he's the only runner) is either going back or he's out. Hmmmmm. Which is the less crappy end of the stick?