What's the call?

[Jocko]

I sent off the question to Ken Allan for a Fed interpretation. I guess I would like to know if we are still "so called umpires" or does the posting of two authoritative opinions on the subject qualify us as just "umpires"?

I heard back from Ken and he said that the Fed interpretation is the same as Harry's.so to clarify, the official word from THE fed authority is that relative position of R1 when the out on BR is made matters as to where he was when he missed the base. Is this correct?

[grayhawk]

 

I sent off the question to Ken Allan for a Fed interpretation. I guess I would like to know if we are still "so called umpires" or does the posting of two authoritative opinions on the subject qualify us as just "umpires"?

 

I heard back from Ken and he said that the Fed interpretation is the same as Harry's.

&am

p;nbs

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so to clarify, the official word from THE fed authority is that relative position of R1 when the out on BR is made matters as to where he was when he missed the base. Is this correct?

That's correct.  He agreed with Harry in that the status of the runner "at the time he missed the base" is critical in determining if the missed base appeal was a force or not.

[Jocko]

 

I sent off the question to Ken Allan for a Fed interpretation. I guess I would like to know if we are still "so called umpires" or does the posting of two authoritative opinions on the subject qualify us as just "umpires"? 

I heard back from Ken and he said that the Fed interpretation is the same as Harry's.

 

so to clarify, the official word from THE fed authority is that relative position of R1 when the out on BR is made matters as to where he was when he missed the base. Is this correct?

That's correct.  He agreed with Harry in that the status of the runner "at the time he missed the base" is critical in determining if the missed base appeal was a force or not.

Thank you. Since 90% of my games are NFHS rules, that simplifies it for me. Muchas gracias.

[JaxRolo]

I sent off the question to Ken Allan for a Fed interpretation. I guess I would like to know if we are still "so called umpires" or does the posting of two authoritative opinions on the subject qualify us as just "umpires"?

I heard back from Ken and he said that the Fed interpretation is the same as Harry's.

 

so to clarify, the official word from THE fed authority is that relative position of R1 when the out on BR is made matters as to where he was when he missed the base. Is this correct?

That's correct. He agreed with Harry in that the status of the runner "at the time he missed the base" is critical in determining if the missed base appeal was a force or not.

Thank you. Since 90% of my games are NFHS rules, that simplifies it for me. Muchas gracias.

De nada!

[Jocko]

I sent off the question to Ken Allan for a Fed interpretation. I guess I would like to know if we are still "so called umpires" or does the posting of two authoritative opinions on the subject qualify us as just "umpires"?

I heard back from Ken and he said that the Fed interpretation is the same as Harry's.

 

so to clarify, the official word from THE fed authority is that relative position of R1 when the out on BR is made matters as to where he was when he missed the base. Is this correct?

That's correct. He agreed with Harry in that the status of the runner "at the time he missed the base" is critical in determining if the missed base appeal was a force or not.

Thank you. Since 90% of my games are NFHS rules, that simplifies it for me. Muchas gracias.

De nada!

¡ESTA SE VE TERRIBLE! ¡NO MAS! Por le Dios amo, FIX IT!!!!!!!

[Haid D' Salaami]

jj,

If the runner is forced at the instant he misses the base, a subsequent successful appeal of his miss will be considered as a force out.

 

JM

 

 

A runner is forced the moment the ball is put into play....

[UmpJM]

HDS,

 

He certainly is.

 

However, at some point in time, the force is subsequently removed.

 

When that happens is material to the issue raised in the OP.

 

JM

[Fittske24]

I didn't read all 8 pages but I will make this comment for everyone still in doubt. Don't let the fact that the ball was hit into the out field cloud your judgement. When F9 retires the BR at 1st base the force on R1 is removed. There is another situation where this occurs.... In a double play situation when 1st base is tagged on the front end of a double play, the force is removed and R1 must be tagged. So in the OP, the only runner who's status that matters is the BR. If the BR is retired for out 2 before reaching 1st, then the force on R1 is removed. Now the missed base appeal is a time play. If the BR touches 1st then is put out, then R1 is now forced to go to second. In this case, the missed 2nd base is a force out appeal and no run scores.

[UmpJM]

Again, it makes NO DIFFERENCE as to whether the BR is retired before or after reaching 1B.

 

What DOES matter is whether or not the preceding runner has reached his advance base at the time the following BR is retired.

 

JM

[AZump78]

JM-if they don't get it by now, they never will.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Again, it makes NO DIFFERENCE as to whether the BR is retired before or after reaching 1B.

 

What DOES matter is whether or not the preceding runner has reached his advance base at the time the following BR is retired.

 

JM

you are wrong... it does matter.. once the BR is retired it became a time play...

 

what about this play tell if it is different....

 

R3 & R1 1 out... ground ball to F3 who runs and touches 1st base.... then throws to 2nd to tag R1 R3 scores before R1 is tagged out at 2nd.. does the run score?

[grayhawk]

Haid, you're a Wendelstedt disciple, aren't you? Keep in mind that you are saying Hunter's wrong, because he replied in this same thread and JMs posts are spot on with the Wendelstedt interpretation.

BTW, you're situation above is non sequitur. The appeal play is different.

[Richvee]

Haid, you're a Wendelstedt disciple, aren't you? Keep in mind that you are saying Hunter's wrong, because he replied in this same thread and JMs posts are spot on with the Wendelstedt interpretation.

BTW, you're situation above is non sequitur. The appeal play is different.

 

Whoa....Let me make sure I'm understanding this right... What matters is, did R1 reach 2nd before or after BR is put out. Correct? 

 

Now let's say BR is put out AFTER he's reached 1st, it's a time play @2nd only if R1 still hasn't reached 2nd. Or am I missing something?

[AZump78]

Real simple: At the time of the touch (or miss), was the runner, at that exact moment, (still) being forced to that base. How hard is that to understand?

[Richvee]

Real simple: At the time of the touch (or miss), was the runner, at that exact moment, (still) being forced to that base. How hard is that to understand?

I get it. Some posts in this thread have a  tendency to confuse me. I'm staying away 

[Jocko]

Real simple: At the time of the touch (or miss), was the runner, at that exact moment, (still) being forced to that base. How hard is that to understand?

like trying to work quadratic function while simultaneously juggling chainsaws and reciting state capitols. : What did he say???