Out of the base path and dropped ball

[cbiesecker]

F4 cleanly fields a grounder and has control of the ball while making a tag attempt on R1 who is moving towards him. R1 veers over 3' towards the infield to avoid the tag. F4 pursues him to the edge of the infield grass and then lunges with his glove to make a tag. The ball pops out as the glove touches the runner. What do you got?

In my situation I had judged that F4 had control of the ball up until the point he lunged with his glove to tag the runner. By that point the runner was already 5' or more out of the base path. I called the runner out for being out of the base path.

What if F4 didn't have complete control of the ball and was juggling it during the tag attempt. I'm thinking that even if the runner had gone more than 3' outside of his base path, he would be safe since it's not a legitimate tag attempt for lack of ball control.

[BRUMP]

here it is out of OBR

7.08

Any runner is out when—

(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his base path to avoid being tagged

unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A

runner’s base path is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight

line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely

my interp is that you need to make a determination whether or not the fielder is making a tag attempt or not if he doesnt have the ball then i dont believe it should be a tag attempt

[Jocko]

I got him out according to your description. When in doubt, bang 'em out!

[kylejt]

B Rump has it right. You can't attempt a (legal) tag without the ball. Thus, you can't be called out for avoiding an illegal tag,

How's that for logic?

[semper_fi_72]

If you don't have possession you can not be making a tag attempt.

No tag no base path and the runner can go any where he wants.

[Jocko]

In your actual game situation, the ball popped out as he made the tag. Baseline established when he ran away from F4 with the ball.

In your hypothetical question, I concur with my colleagues. if the fielder does NOT have control of the ball, he can't make a tag. Ergo, the base path has yet to be established.

[johnnyg08]

Agree w/ trout

[JaxRolo]

Agree w/ trout

I agree as well. Fielder is chasing him with the ball in hand I have it as attempting to tag. He should have been called out long before he ever dropped the ball.

[NFUA_44]

Your game sitch is right on it, good call. On the hypothetical, consider that F4 can only do one thing at a time. Either he is making a tag attempt, or he is trying to gain or maintain posession of the ball. As you surmised, the tag attempt would require that he already have control of it sufficient to make a tag attempt.

The way I'm picturing it the call almost makes itself. Its going to be pretty obvious if he doesn't have control and at that point the runner can move without limits.

[mstaylor]

I am going to take another tact. When did the runner change angles, before the fielder started to move, before he actually caught the ball, or after the fielder started to move? If it was before he had fielded it and the runner moved away to ensure he wasn't creating an interference then it's nothing. If it was as he was catching it then it's the same. If it is after then he is probably going to out of the baseline. If you don't have him out of the line then once the ball pops loose it's over.

[cbiesecker]

In my situation, F4 was playing normal depth, behind the runner's path to the base. After F4 fielded the ball he turned towards the runner for the tag, that's when R1 started to move away towards the infield.

He should have been called out long before he ever dropped the ball.

I was calling and signaling the out just as the ball popped out of the glove. So I added a sweep of my arms with an "out of the baseline", and then signaled the out again. This still didn't stop the coach from coming out to ask about the call.

[VolUmp]

D-D-D-D-D-Did you say a coach asked ... a-a-a-a-about a j-j-j-j-judgment c-c-c-c-call???  That's not legal.

[NFUA_44]

Legal or not, there is no reason you shouldn't be taking the time to clarify what just happened for the coach in this sitch.  CB signaled the out, along with an added element (out of the baseline with arms), which is spot on, but since it's not a sitch that is going to happen very often the coach is going to have a very good reason to clarify what just happened.  It's not to often you have an out call when a field drops the ball.  Assuming he isn't arguing for a different result taking 15 seconds to explain the call keeps you from appearing to be a redass.

 

Simply telling a coach it's not legal to even inquire about a confusing situation is picking up the crappy end of the stick, IMHO.

[BalkHawk]

what trout said

[JaxRolo]

what trout said

Trout never says anything!

[alex7]

5 minutes between original post and 1st answer (and correct).  This place is amazing.

[BT_Blue]

5 minutes between original post and 1st answer (and correct).  This place is amazing.

 

What the hell took them so long?