How much would you take...

[Umpire in Chief]

Just for arguments sake, lets say you kicked a call, how much are you going to take from the coach before punching his ticket?

If I were to kick one;), I would probably let the coach have a pretty good go at me, but would draw the line when he decides to get personal. Such as using the famous "you" statements.

[semperfiguy]

Lets face it we all make mistakes. However when a coach blows a move or insults his own intelligence with what he thought was the rule I never make a point to show him up, or insult him using profanities. I think that is where I draw the line. I also think if he goes on an endless tirade you cant allow this forever. It takes away form the game and his players. balls and strikes baby!!!!

[littleleagueump]

Stand there and take it, don't say anything, look another way at times, keep you arms by your side and let him walk away. After about 1/2 inning or more, go to one of the other coaches from the same team and let them know that you feel their pain. Ha.

[mepperson]

I'd let them go fairly good at me, as long as it was "clean." Depending on my relationship with the coach, I might even admit that I blew it, but also caution that I won't try to make up for it - after all, the ones that we blow without trying to usually end up evening out.

In any event, to keep myself from getting down about blowing it, I'll remember that there are literally hundreds of calls during a game; as a group, we might miss 5% of those. Hopefully, one of those won't be in a situation where it's obvious that we blew it. Hopefully, too, I'll be one of the ones who is keeping the "blown call rate" at 5%, and offsetting others who may be blowing a lot of them...

[Bigdog]

Hey all,

I have NEVER kicked a call! The scorebooks agree with every call I have ever made!!:rolleyes:

Bigdog:cool:

[JohnT]

If they go on and on about the dang call, I do not approach them, and every time they ask me I insist it is right. If the coaches maybe make one or two comments, I will walk up to them between innings and let them know I blew it. It is the endless tirades that get me. That and bringing it up later in the game. I think to myself "Get over it!"

[littleleagueump]

Well said JohnT. Tomorrow is another day for another game.

[UmpInVA]

Stand there and take it, don't say anything, look another way at times, keep you arms by your side and let him walk away. After about 1/2 inning or more, go to one of the other coaches from the same team and let them know that you feel their pain. Ha.

After blowing the call, I doubt the coaches would care about the pain you feel. Wasted time, wasted steps wasted effort.

[Dobie]

When I blow a call, I let them have the same amount of leash as I do when I'm 100% right. Let them have their say, and that is that. Remember the saying, "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile,"? We simply cannot allow that.

I am approachable, I will discuss, I will listen their first time around, and I will allow them to argue. What I won't allow is for them to make it obvious to everyone in the ballpark that I am (or they think I am) wrong. If you let them rant longer than normal, you're telling everyone that you screwed the pooch. Then you may be in for a long night.

Another drawback of giving them more time than normal is what happens if the other coach come out on you and you listen, explain, and then end the discussion? Now you're not treating each the same... we can't do that either.

Just my opinion...

[Old Nr 24]

As is true with about 99% of game management, the OP is very subjective, and I understand why. That said, I would usually listen to any argument or comments from coaches as long as they were not abusive and out of control. However, I would not have the game delayed for 10-15 minutes while they continue to beat a dead horse. I made a comment in another thread about admitting I kicked a call, and here is my other one. Yea, you read it right..."ONE!"

HS game with two of the best teams in the state, and Old Nr. 24 has the dish....again. I'm having a great game...in the zone...on top of everything! But I got lazy I guess, and when the home team's catcher dove for a little blooper of a foul ball that never got 6 feet off the ground, I tried to make the call from behind him! It happened so quickly. The ball was not in the air for more than 3 seconds, I swear. Anyway, he comes up with the ball and I call the out....as the visitors in the first base dugout explode, yelling, "The ball was on the ground!"

I call time and only THEN do I go to my partner at first. Duh! I walk up the line and he meets me about half way, on the infield grass well out of anyone's ear shot and I ask him, "John, did he catch that ball?" John smiles down at me from his 6'4" frame and quietly says, "No freakin' way, Dave. He picked it up as he rolled." I can just see the mess that awaits me now.

I turn to the home team's third base dugout and signal no catch, just a foul ball. The coach looks like a heat seeking missle coming at me! I had known both coaches for a long time, so in this case I figured familiarity might just get me off the hook without having to toss this poor guy. After all, he's just trying to win a ballgame and make the playoffs, and I'm out there screwing his chances!

But he passes me by, heading instead for my partner at first! I jump in front of him quickly and say, "Whoa, whoa, Barney. I made the call so talk to me, not John." And so he begins. I stand quietly, arms folded, listening intently as I watch the veins on his neck grow larger and larger, wondering to myself just how up to date my CPR card is. And all the while every time there was a pause (and there were not many!) I simply said, "Barney, we got the call right. Barney, we got the call right. Barney, we got the call right."

He finally runs down after a few minutes, and while the blowout was demonstrative and "energetic," it was never abusive or personal. And finally he returned to the bench and we continued what was an excellent ballgame. The batter came back to the plate and promptly grounded out to second. In the next visitor half of the inning I asked the home team's catcher if he caught the ball and he said, "No way. I was trying to buy it."

And get this footnote! After the game the manager comes over as we are leaving the field....and apologizes for blowing his stack! He has spoken with his catcher and his first base coach, and both confirmed our call.

[mstaylor]

Old Nr 24's story is an good example of getting together. There are many times they want us to conference that is not appropreate but this isn't one. Good story.

[catoblue]

I'm with doby on this one. I'll let them come out and have their say, but I won't permit any more leeway than I would if I had not kicked the call. The line is the line. Wneh they cross it, they punch their ticket - period.

[Stan W.]

If you have clearly blown a call, (and I have) most umpires with experience will most probably give that coach some leeway in his complaint.....

As long as he avoids profanity and keeps it within reason, Im going to let him complain a bit...he has a right, I blew the call...AND.....I do not want to compound my mistake with an ejection....so I will do my best to keep him in the game and take my lumps....YET...there is a line....and an ejection could follow if he crosses it....

Also to me....since I"ve been around them a long time....the Coaches prior history of good behavior, Game and Rules Knowledge and relationships with umpires will give some coaches extra leeway in some disagreeable situations.......

Edited March 27, 2009 by Stan W.
clarity

[mstaylor]

As PIAA said you are going to give hi some leeway but cross the line. The way I usually explain it is he is going to be allowed a little more length of argument but he still isn't going to be allowed to get personal or profane.

[PeteBooth]

I ask him, "John, did he catch that ball?" John smiles down at me from his 6'4" frame and quietly says, "No freakin' way, Dave. He picked it up as he rolled." I can just see the mess that awaits me now.

NR great story but IMO that is DIFFERENT from what Warren is talking about in his OP.

I think this is what Warren is referring to:

I will change your conversation with John

I ask him, "John, did he catch that ball?" John smiles down at me from his 6'4" frame and quietly says, "I have NO IDEA Dave. I was blocked out the same as you and did not get a good look.

Now your partner cannot help you and you STICK with the call but you KICKED IT.

IMO, that is what Warren is talking about. In your case the call was CORRECT but what if your partner could not help you and the call was KICKED.

How much "rope' would you have given the coach especially in a tight ball-game.

Pete Booth

[COPPERELLER]

My name is Dennis Eller,

And my Ejection process is simple, question me and take your keys, Have a nice drive home.

[arbiter22]

Ok here goes...

You really have to watch it when i comes to telling a coach that you missed a call. I'm not saying to lie to them. (NEVER EVER LIE to them) But just tell em what you had on the play and listen to what they have. Then move on. As far as taking more heat from them when you miss a play, you just have to read the situation and the importance of that play. In minor league ball we see the teams over and over again so get to know them. If its a manger that picks his battles I will listen to him longer than a manager that has something to say about everything.

Don't let them complain about a play from earlier in the game. Even a play the pitch before. By then its over and done with and no point in beating a dead horse.

[arbiter22]

PS

As per my contract I CANNOT state my league, level, or name on a public officiating forum.

I think it's really cool that there are sites like this available for advise on becoming a better umpire

[mstaylor]

Welcome to the site COPPERELLER and arbiter 22. Arbiter 22, I understand the in MiLB you have to handle managers way different than we can in the levels we work. I like your idea of listening more to a manager that picks his battles over an idiot that wants to put on a show.

[Stan W.]

coppereller and arbiter 22....welcome to the site!!

arbiter22....please do whatever you have to do to stay contributing to the site...we can always use insights from the highest levels....

[arbiter22]

Hey guys I want to clarify that I'm not nor am I trying to give off the impression that I'm part of MiLB. I work in an independant minor league. I'm just another guy trying to move up the latter. And I'm trying to learn like everyone else. Sorry if there is any confusion.

[MCLEOD36]

Oh, here is a nice solution. Take an aspirin before the game to calm you, LOL. If coach is persisting on silly things or throwing partner under the bus, I will get together with partner after that and we shorten the rope and warn him. Having a coach up in your grille against your partner, or flailing around on minor stuff and trying to demean; STAY UNITED and be ready to toss him very quickly...

[willv28]

I would try to keep a happy medium. Always the same, never want to tip my hand I blew the call. But I've never ejected anyone, lol.

[BT_Blue]

Hey guys I want to clarify that I'm not nor am I trying to give off the impression that I'm part of MiLB. I work in an independant minor league. I'm just another guy trying to move up the latter. And I'm trying to learn like everyone else. Sorry if there is any confusion.

Thats fine too. Thats a lot higher than a lot of us have gotten. We have guys on here from former MLB/MiLB guys, to guys that teach at the umpire schools... all the way down to guys that are still yet to work their first game (and yes even some rats join in... im talking to you CoachJM:wave:LOL)

Keep posting with any great info you have and for that matter, keep doing what you are doing.