pick off move from the windup

[craigl58]

Rhp from the windup,3rd base occupied. Pitcher steps back off the rubber with pivot foot only, then steps toward 3rd base and fakes the throw. Is this a balk? NFHS, and OBR

[fungobat]

OBR - not a balk.

Reference: 8.01(e) - If the pitcher removes his pivot foot from contact with the pitcher's plate by stepping backward with that foot, he thereby becomes an infielder...

Infielders cannot balk, although I've seen coaches demand a "fielder's balk" when F3 or F5 straddle the bag while holding a runner and F1 makes his delivery. Actually saw an umpire call a "fielder's balk" on F5, awarding R3 home as the deciding run in a 12U tournament game. Not good.

[JaxRolo]

Not a balk anywhere if he steps off the rubber correctly.

[noumpere]

Not a balk anywhere if he steps off the rubber correctly.

Agreed and while I know this is kind of the newbies section I wonder why this question would be asked? I am hoping theres more to the story or the reason than just was presented and I sure hope no one called it a balk as described.

[Dragon29]

. . . I've seen coaches demand a "fielder's balk" when F3 or F5 straddle the bag while holding a runner and F1 makes his delivery. Actually saw an umpire call a "fielder's balk" on F5, awarding R3 home as the deciding run in a 12U tournament game. Not good.

Were you at that game? This exact thing happened to me 2-3 seasons ago; LL post-season tournament, Majors (12U) game. I'm PU; game is tied in the bottom of the 6th; R1 & R3 - 2 outs. My partner has warned F3's & F5's on both teams several times to keep both feet in fair territory while holding the runners (I know! I don't pick that scab unless I absolutely have to) As F1 throws, I hear 'Time! That's a balk! You - score." I waited at the plate for a moment to see if either manager was going to say anything, but . . . . . nothing.

So - we left the field. When I explained to my partner that there's no such call in LL (didn't bother to address calling 'Time' first) he said, "Well, I had warned them, so I don't feel bad about it." And, he didn't, either.

[fungobat]

. . . I've seen coaches demand a "fielder's balk" when F3 or F5 straddle the bag while holding a runner and F1 makes his delivery. Actually saw an umpire call a "fielder's balk" on F5, awarding R3 home as the deciding run in a 12U tournament game. Not good.

Were you at that game? This exact thing happened to me 2-3 seasons ago; LL post-season tournament, Majors (12U) game. I'm PU; game is tied in the bottom of the 6th; R1 & R3 - 2 outs. My partner has warned F3's & F5's on both teams several times to keep both feet in fair territory while holding the runners (I know! I don't pick that scab unless I absolutely have to) As F1 throws, I hear 'Time! That's a balk! You - score." I waited at the plate for a moment to see if either manager was going to say anything, but . . . . . nothing.

So - we left the field. When I explained to my partner that there's no such call in LL (didn't bother to address calling 'Time' first) he said, "Well, I had warned them, so I don't feel bad about it." And, he didn't, either.

I saw it happen in a 12U Major game last month in the Kansas City area. Head coach called the issue to the BU's attention when it happened earlier in the game, but apparently convinced him to save the "call" for later when his team needed it most. Total horse----.

"Don't do it," was the appropriate way to address the situation. If coaches continue to complain about it, and the defense continues to do it while completely disregarding warnings, then, at MOST, your partner may have had an ejection situation for the offender(s). Never seen it get that far, though.

[NoCal Blue]

Once he disengages....no balk can be called.

[craigl58]

doesn't it matter if f-1 is starting from the windup or pitching from the stretch?

From the windup he is on the rubber with both feet at the start of the pitch.

[scrounge]

doesn't it matter if f-1 is starting from the windup or pitching from the stretch?

From the windup he is on the rubber with both feet at the start of the pitch.

If he steps backward off the plate with his pivot foot (right foot for a right hander, etc), then he's fine no matter stretch or windup

[Jimurray]

. . . I've seen coaches demand a "fielder's balk" when F3 or F5 straddle the bag while holding a runner and F1 makes his delivery. Actually saw an umpire call a "fielder's balk" on F5, awarding R3 home as the deciding run in a 12U tournament game. Not good.

Were you at that game? This exact thing happened to me 2-3 seasons ago; LL post-season tournament, Majors (12U) game. I'm PU; game is tied in the bottom of the 6th; R1 & R3 - 2 outs. My partner has warned F3's & F5's on both teams several times to keep both feet in fair territory while holding the runners (I know! I don't pick that scab unless I absolutely have to) As F1 throws, I hear 'Time! That's a balk! You - score." I waited at the plate for a moment to see if either manager was going to say anything, but . . . . . nothing.

So - we left the field. When I explained to my partner that there's no such call in LL (didn't bother to address calling 'Time' first) he said, "Well, I had warned them, so I don't feel bad about it." And, he didn't, either.

Was this truly under LL rules? If so, was there no protest?

[Dragon29]

. . . I've seen coaches demand a "fielder's balk" when F3 or F5 straddle the bag while holding a runner and F1 makes his delivery. Actually saw an umpire call a "fielder's balk" on F5, awarding R3 home as the deciding run in a 12U tournament game. Not good.

Were you at that game? This exact thing happened to me 2-3 seasons ago; LL post-season tournament, Majors (12U) game. I'm PU; game is tied in the bottom of the 6th; R1 & R3 - 2 outs. My partner has warned F3's & F5's on both teams several times to keep both feet in fair territory while holding the runners (I know! I don't pick that scab unless I absolutely have to) As F1 throws, I hear 'Time! That's a balk! You - score." I waited at the plate for a moment to see if either manager was going to say anything, but . . . . . nothing.

So - we left the field. When I explained to my partner that there's no such call in LL (didn't bother to address calling 'Time' first) he said, "Well, I had warned them, so I don't feel bad about it." And, he didn't, either.

Was this truly under LL rules? If so, was there no protest?

Yes, it was - and no, it wasn't protested. I was sure it would be. Oh - and to add to the stupidity, turns out the Asst. Coach on the losing team was that league's Chief Umpire - !!?!!

Clueless - absolutely clueless.

[Jocko]

doesn't it matter if f-1 is starting from the windup or pitching from the stretch?

From the windup he is on the rubber with both feet at the start of the pitch.

No it doesn't matter. From the windup, he is on the rubber with both feet. At the "start of the pitch" more appropriately worded "time of the pitch" he has committed himself to deliver to the plate ONLY. It would be a balk if he didn't pitch the ball. Before the "start of the pitch" he can disengage the rubber and throw wherever he wants, or nowhere for that matter. He hasn't committed himself. Until he moves in such a way as to COMMIT TO PITCH, the pitch hasn't "started."

[mstaylor]

In Fed this is true, also true in other codes. The difference is in other codes he could just step straight to third with his nonpivot foot, no disengagement needed.

[Jocko]

In Fed this is true, also true in other codes. The difference is in other codes he could just step straight to third with his nonpivot foot, no disengagement needed.

Also legal in Fed before TOP

[JaxRolo]

In Fed this is true, also true in other codes. The difference is in other codes he could just step straight to third with his nonpivot foot, no disengagement needed.

Also legal in Fed before TOP

I don't think this is correct.

[mstaylor]

Trout, in the windup in Fed he has to disengage. LL he can step to third and throw or feint.

[Jocko]

From windup yes. I misunderstood post. Was thinking stretch. Oops :s

[Richvee]

Once he disengages....no balk can be called.

Not entirely true. After the pitcher legally steps off with the pivot foot, if he starts any movement naturally associated with a pitching motion before throwing to a base, that would be a balk.

Example- R1. F1 in the windup position, hands together in front of his body, legally steps off, starts to raise his hands above is head as in the windup motion....BALK

[Guest Mark]

A pitcher CAN step towards, an occupied base, and throw, while in the wind-up position; as long as his primary move was not engaging his pitch. In other words; in the umpires judgement, there was no deception in starting his pitch & then switching to a pick-off.

As we all can see what the rule reads: 1) Pitch to the batter  2) Step and throw to a base for a pick-off, &  3) Disengage the rubber  WHAT DO YOU THINK

[noumpere]

  WHAT DO YOU THINK

I think you should not have re-opened a two year old thread -- especially just to add a comment that doesn't really clarify anything that wasn't already covered in the thread.