Verbal "out" on swinging strike 3?

[MPLSMatt]

Do you guys verbalize the out on a swinging 3rd strike? I have not been and it bit me last night.

Was working 18U (legionish but not legion) and had a batter K on a swinging third. First base was occupied so I gave the strike point and the punch out but not a verbal (I've always thought that it's the same theory as the swinging strike). F2 tried to throw out R1 who was stealing on the play but threw the ball to center field. The runner goes to 3rd on a close play (safe). Action relaxes and I return to the plate for who I think to be the next hitter. Visiting coach yells at catcher "don't be throwing the ball around with two outs (he thought that he had no play on the runner stealing and it was a dumb throw)". F2 signals 2 outs to his D team. Pitcher throws to who I thought was the next batter for a strike. Suddenly DC comes out of the duggout and goes "isn't he out." I said, no it's strike 1 and there are 2 outs. Finally, I check with the Offensive book and it is the same hitter who had Ked - he never left after he Ked and has actually taken 4 strikes (and remarkably, still doesn't think that he has Ked). Eventually we sort out the mess but I felt like a complete moron. I give the count on every pitch except for the first so I'm not sure how this confusion happened but somehow it did... So, back to my original question, should I verbalize the out on a swinging strike? Anything else I could have done to avoid this CF?

[Fittske24]

I also use the point mechanic for swinging strikes. When I have a swinging strike three, I will give a point for the swing followed by a subtle hammer with a "batters out" only loud enough for the catcher and the batter to hear. What also helps is giving the count before any "2 strike" pitch. I usually give the count @ 0-2, 1-2, 2-2, or 3-2. This way there is no confusion when there is a swinging strike three.

Now if the DC was smart... he should have let the at-bat go to completion then appealed for batting out of order :-)

[MPLSMatt]

Glad he didn't want batting out of order or I would have a sh#t storm on my hands of the OC wondering why I let his batter stay up after I banged him.

And I do give the count after every two strike pitch but somehow this kid wasn't paying attention.

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't typically make a verbal on a swinging strike 3, but if he's acting like he's not out I just tell him, "Thats three" in a normal voice.

[Stan W.]

I When I have a swinging strike three, I will give a point for the swing followed by a subtle hammer with a "batters out" only loud enough for the catcher and the batter to hear.

thats the same for me........

[PeteBooth]

Do you guys verbalize the out on a swinging 3rd strike? I have not been and it bit me last night.

Was working 18U (legionish but not legion) and had a batter K on a swinging third.

I was TAUGHT and still do NOT verbalize a swinging strike 3. I simply indicate the OUT with my right hand. If it was a check swing that I called a strike I would point and say "yes he did" and ring up the out. If we have a questionable DK3, I will point to the ground indicating we do not have a catch and the batter is NOT yet out.

At the 18U level if they do not know they are out when they swing and miss for strike 3 - TOO BAD If they get caught for a BOO situation it's NOT a shi*****m but stupidity on the part of the offense and we should punish stupidity whenever possible.

Pete Booth

[MPLSMatt]

That makes me feel better because although both coaches (who were good coaches - seemed to know the rules and talked to me with respect) kind of acted like it was my fault as PU. Truth is, I should have noticed he was still up there but I guess you just assume that when someone Ks, he'd know it - especially when I announce the count on every pitch. The thought never occurred to me to double check the batters number.

[rulebook]

That makes me feel better because although both coaches (who were good coaches - seemed to know the rules and talked to me with respect) kind of acted like it was my fault as PU. Truth is, I should have noticed he was still up there but I guess you just assume that when someone Ks, he'd know it - especially when I announce the count on every pitch. The thought never occurred to me to double check the batters number.

If you had noticed that the K'd batter was still there, you probably should have verbalized that was three strikes. But in general, it's not your job to tell the offensive team who should be batting. It's the defensive team's responsibility to monitor this and appeal if they choose. In fact, Rule 6.07 Comment says, "The umpire shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both teams."

Edited July 15, 2010 by rulebook

[LMSANS]

Were you working solo?

[yawetag]

Pitcher throws to who I thought was the next batter for a strike. Suddenly DC comes out of the duggout and goes "isn't he out." I said, no it's strike 1 and there are 2 outs. Finally, I check with the Offensive book and it is the same hitter who had Ked - he never left after he Ked and has actually taken 4 strikes (and remarkably, still doesn't think that he has Ked). Eventually we sort out the mess but I felt like a complete moron.

How did you sort out the mess?

[ukce1861]

How did you sort out the mess?

Was wondering that too. I'm thinking correct batter steps in and assumes a 0-1 count...

[MPLSMatt]

I had a partner but he didn't catch it either. He is kind of a good ole boy ump - great presence and controls games well but has some improper mechanics. He's big on "it doesn't matter how we get there, as long is the call is correct" which simply isn't true at this high level of ball - mechanics and not stepping on each others' call is important. Would fit in fine in a 15U game but in a game with mostly Varsity high school players, I'm not a huge fan of his casual attitude. BUT - he is a good dude and most of these games I end up doing alone so I was pretty happy to have a BU.

As to sorting it out - The defensive coach appealed once he caught it. I checked the HT book (I was still unsure that it was the same hitter). She didn't have an out down for the hitter (she was just a parent volunteer) so it was pretty obvious the Ked batter was never sent down. After a brief discussion with OC, I Ked the hitter who went without complaint (obviously he knew he was wrong) and put the new hitter up at 0-0. That's where I kicked it. I should have put B1's 4th strike on as B2's first strike but my mind didn't think of it as BOO but instead that I screwed up so I tried to use the "fix it" rule to make it right. Neither coach complained about this decision but clearly it should have been 0-1 when B2 came to the plate.

[mazzamouth]

I'm a pointer on called strikes and a hammer on swinging strikes.. I never mix the two.. on a 3rd strike swinging I still use a hammer..I went to Jimmy's and they teach the hammer on all strikes swinging or not..But i never use a verbal either.. unless the batter does not know he is out.. " yea son, that was strike 3"...LOL

[tommy]

Im with mazz on this one, I point on strike one & two and use the hammer on a swinging strike three and say nothing. I always verbalize all action counts so if the batter or the catcher for all that matter dont know there are two strikes on the hitter thats not my problem.

[kwiggie]

we should punish stupidity whenever possible.

Quite possible the quote of the year, right here!!!!

[buddywilshire]

I'm a pointer on called strikes and a hammer on swinging strikes.. I never mix the two.. on a 3rd strike swinging I still use a hammer..I went to Jimmy's and they teach the hammer on all strikes swinging or not..But i never use a verbal either.. unless the batter does not know he is out.. " yea son, that was strike 3"...LOL

That is how I do it.

[buddywilshire]

Was wondering that too. I'm thinking correct batter steps in and assumes a 0-1 count...

That is how it should be.