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crazyaboutcoues

By crazyaboutcoues
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crazyaboutcoues

crazyaboutcoues

Posted
Posted

Bases loaded, batter hits a high pop fly that is easily catchable, but hits the runner who is standing on second base.

a - dead ball batter out

b - dead ball both the batter and runner on second are out

c - dead ball only runner is out

d - live ball no out are yet declared

The question didn't state how many outs there were so I guess in this case it doesn't matter...my thoughts are since this could be an easy out and force outs at any base, the runner on second should not be required to leave the base so not to interfere with DP. The book states that during and IFF if the runner is hit on base it is not an out. What's the call?

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UmpTTS43
UmpTTS43

I'm pretty sure they want you to assume less than 2 outs. Wow, kind of like some of the NCAA questions. If there were 2 outs, R2 should be out for the shear stupidy for not running when the ball is

Replacematt
Replacematt

I can say from experience that some are.

mstaylor
mstaylor

Read post 28 and it shows why the question is clear.

sdix00

sdix00

Posted
Posted

Bases loaded, batter hits a high pop fly that is easily catchable, but hits the runner who is standing on second base.

a - dead ball batter out

b - dead ball both the batter and runner on second are out

c - dead ball only runner is out

d - live ball no out are yet declared

The question didn't state how many outs there were so I guess in this case it doesn't matter...my thoughts are since this could be an easy out and force outs at any base, the runner on second should not be required to leave the base so not to interfere with DP. The book states that during and IFF if the runner is hit on base it is not an out. What's the call?

Which rule(s) apply here?

Read them in their entirety and it will give you the answer. This one is well covered in the rule book.

NCAAump2

NCAAump2

Posted
Posted

Without consulting a rulebook, my instinct tells me the answer is A, but I have a feeling it depends on the number of outs there are. Bases loaded, less than 2 outs, we have IFF situation so BR is out, but since R2 is entitled to 2nd base, I don't see how he could be out. Bases loaded WITH 2 outs, not sure.

crazyaboutcoues

crazyaboutcoues

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Page 54 8-4-2k1

If a runner is touching his base when he is hit by an infield fly, he is not out, but the batter is out by a IFFR. the ball is dead, even in the exception.

What I read is; dead ball the runner is not out, if it's less than two outs batter is out in IFFR, but what if there two outs?

The OP doesn't state how many out there are...what am I missing?

ukce1861

ukce1861

Posted
Posted

Dix - not really seeing where this is clearly covered in the book... Now, using my deductive reasoning, I guess I'm coming up with A if I have to pick one answer, but this doesn't feel right... My reason for choosing A is that, assuming there are less than two outs, we have an IFF. Batter's out, ball's dead when it hits R2, but he's not out.(8-4-2-k.2) If there are two outs, somebody's going to be out due to interference. But, I think I'd call R2 out in this situation. I guess it's kinda moot, because it's the third out so it's really a scorebook only matter, but still.

I just don't see how it can be any of the other answers in FED.

UmpTTS43

UmpTTS43

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure they want you to assume less than 2 outs. Wow, kind of like some of the NCAA questions. If there were 2 outs, R2 should be out for the shear stupidy for not running when the ball is hit.

Edited by UmpTTS43
  • Like 1
noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure they want you to assume 2 outs. Wow, kind of like some of the NCAA questions. If there were 2 outs, R2 should be out for the shear stupidy for not running when the ball is hit.

I think you meant to say to assume less than two outs and I agree with that but they also dont say which runner. If the ball was hit high enough it could hit the batter runner as he pulls into second. lol.

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

Here's what I have (assuming there are 2 outs)

C - runner is out for interference and the ball is dead. A runner can get hit by a fair batted ball while standing on his legally occupied base as long as the "interference is not intentional". However, since no runner behind him has yet been put out, he no longer legally occupies 2nd base - he is forced from it. Therefore, we have interference and the ball is dead. 3 outs and the inning is over.

EDIT: With less than 2 outs (IFF situation), I have A - the batter is out and the ball is dead.

sdix00

sdix00

Posted
Posted

Here's what I have (assuming there are 2 outs)

C - runner is out for interference and the ball is dead. A runner can get hit by a fair batted ball while standing on his legally occupied base as long as the "interference is not intentional". However, since no runner behind him has yet been put out, he no longer legally occupies 2nd base - he is forced from it. Therefore, we have interference and the ball is dead. 3 outs and the inning is over.

EDIT: With less than 2 outs (IFF situation), I have A - the batter is out and the ball is dead.

Exactly what I have. When reading the OP, I missed that they didn't give the number of outs. I assumed it was less than 2 outs, because R2 did not run.

IFF, batter is out, Ball is dead on the contact with R2.

R2 is not out as he was in contact, per IFFR.

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

I don't see how the answer doesn't depend on the number of outs. If it is not an IFF and the runner is hit by the ball, he could be out for INT.

8.4.2 SITUATION H

With R1 on second, R2 on first and one out, B4 hits a ground ball or an infield fly. F4, standing behind second base, is in position to field the ball. The ball strikes R1 who is (a) near second or (B) standing on second.

RULING: In both (a) and (B), the ball is dead immediately. If the hit is an infield fly, B4 shall be declared out (8-4-1j). In (a), R1 is out on either type of hit. In (B), R1 would be out on the ground ball, but not on an infield fly. A runner need not vacate his base to permit a fielder to make a catch, but he shall give the fielder a reasonable opportunity to make the play. (7-4-1f, 5-1-1f)

  • 4 weeks later...
mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

As I explained to several of my group, if you read the question really carefully it will answer itself. N ow everyone seems to understand that if there are less than two outs then it is an IFF and the runner is protected. That means A would be the correct answer for less than two outs. Everyone also understands that with two outs the runner only is going to be out, so everyone is trying to make C be the answer. The problem is C is incorrect, why? If you can figure that out then you will get the correct answer.

scrounge

scrounge

Posted
Posted

Is it because with 2 outs, if the runner was out the batter would have to lead off the next inning? If the batter didn't make the last out, he couldn't be skipped, could he?

As I explained to several of my group, if you read the question really carefully it will answer itself. N ow everyone seems to understand that if there are less than two outs then it is an IFF and the runner is protected. That means A would be the correct answer for less than two outs. Everyone also understands that with two outs the runner only is going to be out, so everyone is trying to make C be the answer. The problem is C is incorrect, why? If you can figure that out then you will get the correct answer.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

Is it because with 2 outs, if the runner was out the batter would have to lead off the next inning? If the batter didn't make the last out, he couldn't be skipped, could he?

Nope. The batter became a runner when he hit the fair ball so his AB is over. So no matter who is out there is an empty base to use when placing the other runner.

By rule it's because with two outs there's no infield fly in effect so the batter is not automatically out and the runner's protection from being hit is not in effect.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

If there were two outs the runner would be going, not standing on 2B.

Rich, you are thinking like a coach again. As a coach told me a few years ago, he's an athlete not a scholar.

Pops

Pops

Posted
Posted

As I explained to several of my group, if you read the question really carefully it will answer itself. N ow everyone seems to understand that if there are less than two outs then it is an IFF and the runner is protected. That means A would be the correct answer for less than two outs. Everyone also understands that with two outs the runner only is going to be out, so everyone is trying to make C be the answer. The problem is C is incorrect, why? If you can figure that out then you will get the correct answer.

I understand that with less than 2 outs the runner is protected by standing on second base (I'm looking at FED rule 8-4-2-k-1). But with 2 outs and bases loaded (or even if there is only a man on second base), is the runner protected by standing on second? I'm not seeing the rule for that situation.
Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

As I explained to several of my group, if you read the question really carefully it will answer itself. N ow everyone seems to understand that if there are less than two outs then it is an IFF and the runner is protected. That means A would be the correct answer for less than two outs. Everyone also understands that with two outs the runner only is going to be out, so everyone is trying to make C be the answer. The problem is C is incorrect, why? If you can figure that out then you will get the correct answer.

I understand that with less than 2 outs the runner is protected by standing on second base (I'm looking at FED rule 8-4-2-k-1). But with 2 outs and bases loaded (or even if there is only a man on second base), is the runner protected by standing on second? I'm not seeing the rule for that situation.

He's only protected if it's an infield fly. With two outs there cannot be an infield fly.

That should give you the answer.

johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

He's protected because of the infield fly. If there were two outs the runner would be running on the swing, not standing on 2nd base.

The rule is under a "runner is out for..."

This question, while poorly written, implies an infield fly situation. Batter is out. Runner remains on 2nd base. In many other instances, the base is not a "safe haven" except in the case of an infield fly...and maybe one or two "through or by situations" and maybe some deflected ball scenarios. Think about the question you're asking, then it will make sense.

8-4-2k

k. is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play (5-1-1f, 6-1-5).

1. If a runner is touching his base when he is hit by an infield fly, he is not out, but the batter is out by the infield fly rule. The ball is dead, even in the exception.

I'm happy to help, but you'd learn more if you looked these up on your own.

Pops

Pops

Posted
Posted

I understand he is protected during an IFR situation. I was asking about the rule which implies that he is not protected when there are 2 outs or when IFR is not in effect.

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