archangel

A middle school OM complains that the catcher was in the baseline( on the tag then MC and toss) will at least get a " He's allowed to with the ball, coach", instead of repeating myself with "He's out and gone"- which he already knows. A little game management here would be good....and frankly, the coach comment to the runner rounding 3rd may not be a shot a you but good advice to a middle school player.....I'd ignore that one.

And its always smart to not have a partner "visit" after that half inning....gives the impression that you both are discussing the play (you were but not in that way) and that one is possibly disagreeing with the other....

this is Q #96 on 2012 FED test....

Back in the day, coaching my son in youth ball, we had a season ending cookout at one parents home. In the rec room were old Cinn Reds bats and multiple wall pics of players ect. I asked the Dad about them and he said that he was once a Reds bat boy but was "fired". Turns out that Dick Wagner, the GM, had looked on the field one game, and asked who a certain player was. When told that was the bat boy, Wagner supposedly said that" the bat boy was too tall, get rid of him".

Been really dry here lately and the area all around the plate is lose dirt which has exposed the black. Nice big footprint shows he BARELY touched the black but not a chance in heck that that white was touched. Somewhat tongue-in-cheek but, then if a coach comes out to you, politely disagreeing with some call, and pointing out a footprint or mark in the dirt, then you will believe him? Too many players leave too many prints for me to be Absolutely sure that 1 specific print was made by a certain player......

Had a PU come to me the other day. I safed it. It is possible to call from there but he has to really go pretty far. If you're a PU and you're mindful enough to realize it in time, do you grant the appeal or make the call? It seems like you would have a better vantage point than someone who can only see the batters back... Assume FED or LL for this. When working with different umpires, you may run into "older" ones that still believe the asking of a BU on a check swing is attacking the PU's call and is insulting, hence they dont want to ask (Fed). In my 2nd year, I worked with an experienced official that made it plain in pregame, that if he comes to me, I should say "safe". Thankfully, that much younger me stuck to his guns and responded that "I will call what I see". I teach my students, and tell my BU partners the same thing - its not an ego thing, lets just get the call right. Many times, as PU, I know my "ball" call was correct, but will still go to BU if asked. I look at it as good game management, and as others have said, theres no harm, and the few seconds to do so doesn't delay the game. In a non-related way, my most embarrassing moment on the field, was during a check swing appeal to me (BU) early in my career. Summer HS ball, I'm in A, 2nd inning, school admin is standing near me on other side of fence, asking for info as he is cutting our checks to give us between innings. I'm answering his Q's, mistakenly sometimes looking over at him briefly, between pitches. The next thing I hear is "Did he go?", with me swinging my head to look at PU, then quickly signalling "safe", followed by the appropriate boo's. Except for that, it ended up a smooth, forgettable game. After the game, PU and I are at our trunks when an old lady came by on a walker and complimented PU on a good game. Forgetting about my error and smiling, I said "what about me?" She pointed a boney finger and said " You, sonny...you dont pay attention"....Busted,. If there's any good to come from making mistakes, is that we own them from then on....

I forgot...too much 4th of July "punch"....

There are umpires that believe that warning during the plate conference will actually make their game go smoother. I can see it now...5th inning, close game, coach disagrees with PU pitch calls, wants to chirp, but remembers the warning at the plate, so he stays quiet...yea right...

Well, me saying 17 really looks stupid to all now. Duh...3 runners already on base then grandslam I opened my mouth revealing ignorance, so I'll just stay quiet on this, waiting.......

Tough Q on the # of appeals. I could say 17, assuming all 4 runners actually did miss all 4 bases, and the HR was denied due to illegal bat (or another example). But I wont because if the officials denied the various missed base appeals up to #16 or the HR appeal, 1 of them had to of stopped the process before that point as frivolous,and its just not possible for 2 or 3 umpires to miss all the missed bases. So, leaving the third world, and arriving back in mine, working with 1 partner, I'd say 5.....2 to my pard, and to me with a miss of 3rd and home, and the bat.....But even then, this is a Big HTBT....

I've been wondering about this also. Always wanted to frame a pic of what I'm seeing when the pitcher releases the ball, including part of the batter and F2, with the blurred lines of my mask.....

Part of the problem was the "pitcher". I would've tossed him too...

If you are interested in school ball- JV and below, for next season, get on the state org site you registered with. Look for baseball instructors listed near you. Find out when classes start (probably near year end/jan/feb).

The problem you describe is the BU having the wrong count, NOT because he's carrying an indicator, but because he lost the count/not paying attention. It's everyone's personal choice, but what are the better odds of knowing the count--with or without one? Are you verbally asking, "I have 1-2, do you have anything different?" to the BU with NO indicator, when all can hear? You are telling everyone that you are unsure...If you have a private conversation, then that just slows the game down. In this area, if needed, the PU twirls his pointing fingers sideways around each other.... the BU signals back with fingers on his chest--both signals are not real obvious and are quick.....

Its looks like you were wanting some payback, and got it, due to the coach's history. 3 warnings to get in the dugout? Too many....then toss for standing/leaning on dugout doorway?--thats close enough for me to be in the dugout----you're looking for an excuse and it sounds that way in your report. 2) Check swing- things are tense at this point. Good game management says ask BU, whats the harm?, keep the game going. You then call time to give thecoach room to complain? 3) You call time to question the "consistency" comment---JUST SAY "THATS ENOUGH", then toss on the next issue. 4) Stopping the game (Twice!) to meet with both mgrs to warn was wrong. Obviously that didnt work, did it? Plus, If I was the non complaining coach, I wouldnt be happy being warned, and it makes you look not in control.. 8) Toss! 9) Toss 10) uhhhh Toss!!!!??? 11) then FINALLY toss for standing in the dugout doorway???? I'd actually be embarrassed to send this report to the governing body.....

I am for the restrict option and if that doesn't work, suspend and let the league figure out the gory details. In Ohio ( Fed), we do have the restriction option, which I've never used, yet. An coach ejection results in a coach's fine, 2 game suspension, and an "anger mngmnt" online course that isnt free. This is fairly recent, and I believe that it has given umpires pause to actually eject because of the large penalty. But thats not me, though I havent tossed or restricted since the it came about. Guess I havent had a game where the coach ejected himself (lol), or an asst coach doing something stupid that causes the HC to be restricted. In the OP, the team only has 1 coach. That has NO bearing on me holding back from ejecting if the coach deserved it. Its his fault he doesnt have an asst. We need to be consistent. If you would restrict the coach for an ejectable offense in the OP, then you should do it for any action, no matter the # of coaches. (which I disagree with, of course)

Maybe too quick but a HTBT. Coach is in the box, and you make the call from, what, 20 ft from him? I would toss depending on his length of rope at that point, and how he yelled (decible level? lol). I think we've all been there, and wonder afterwards, but mainly the only ejections I worry about are the ones I didnt, but should have.....

+1 Yes, to go along, we all have to follow our associations mandates. Fortunately, my assoc takes no stance regarding indicators. I do find it odd that there are those who tell their members not to carry one on the bases. Why? True, mechanics/styles flow down from MLB, but the "looking unprofessional" reason just doesn't fly. If every high school had a working scoreboard and a paid professional scoreboard operator (MLB) , then sure, there's no reason for BU carrying. But HS reality is volunteer/student operators, scoreboards that dont work or nonexistent, parent scorekeepers, coaches that are...well-------- none of which I would trust enough, nor should I anyway, as its my job. In this era of "get the call right", which I agree with 99% (depending on the sitch, of course), why wouldn't my partner and I want to insure we have the right count? AS PU, I sometimes only need to glance at mine maybe once per batter, as signaling the count every other pitch and having notched the indicators wheels, keeps me aware of the count. As BU however, I carry one for 2 reasons: 1) The occasional (1 of every 5?) PU that signals me that he wants my count, as he's not sure. We are judged as a crew, if one makes a mistake, we both look bad. My reputation is important to me, so whats the better choice- looking "unprofessional" for carrying one or for a sitch where PU is unsure of count and BU cant help, coaches complain, ect? No brainer..... 2) When the defense or a base coach asks the count. I refuse to say "ask the PU". I know the correct count, I answer, and it keeps the game flowing.(Yes, PU has the count, I know, but I put this under good game mngmnt, and it works for me) I teach my assoc class for new umpires, and I tell them to carry the indicators as a BU. We all can catch enough grief during a game. Why not limit the chances some by carrying a little plastic thing, hidden, in one hand? Of course, this is just 1 opinion.....

I agree with short answers in principle, though I also dont think adding " while he was picking up the ball" was wrong in this HTBT sich. This was probably a quiet converse that only you and F2 could hear anyway. You said that F2 bobbled then picked up the ball, and you were telling him what he didnt see. Considering that many of us have appropriate short conversations with F2 during the game, I thought you handled things well, including the toss.

I dont think this is good advice. The coach is already upset and has come out of the dugout to ask you to check with your partner (who, is what, 100+ ft farther away?). You then say, in essence, "Go sit down and dont complain if you dont get your way"? That could sound to any coach that you've already made up your mind and PU's input wont change that. I'll deal with issues when they come up, not "warn" a coach about his future possible actions....

I dont want to sound smug, but a 2-man, 80-85% sounds too low (or maybe I've been lucky to work with good partners all this time! lol). Going with just base calls, that could mean maybe 3 - 5+ missed calls, and if you factor in an avg of 300 ball/strike calls, that could mean 45-60 missed by PU alone...Anybody ever walk away thinking "well, I only missed 40 or 50?". In the games I work (HS), and ones where I evaluate others, its more like 1 (maybe 2) on the bases, and just 2 - 3 close ball/strikes if I'm PU, maybe it looks like a few more if I'm BU or in the stands (as PU always has the better view/benefit if doubt).

F2's not being sharp by asking for the appeal. If he doesnt ask, it stays a "ball" and BR comes back. If BU rules "strike", then BR stays at 2nd as its a D3K....I also agree with the immediate pointing/asking of BU by PU...

Received a call this morning to work a varsity city public school game tonight, and said Sure. Assignor lets the umpires decide who is PU/BU. I prefer the plate, but being cordial, I waited until 15min before game to start to suit up as unknown (another assoc) partner hadn't shown up and I think I'm working alone. He shows up a couple minutes later, I ask, he says he wants the plate because he's unsure about working BU. So I ask how long he's been doing this, he says 3 games(and I'm thinking this is varsity, somebody messed up). Anyway, he asks me if it was OK to wear his shinguards over his pantslegs as he bought the pants at a thriftshop and they wont fit under the pants. I say no, and immediately start to gear up again. As it is a little cool out, I ask if he has the right jacket, answer no, so we tough it out- wasnt too bad. He then asks if he can borrow my extra hat- he doesnt have one (Sure). I do a pregame as I dress and we walk to the field. During the plate conference, he kneels down to re-tie his shoes(I swear). As I say "Play" , He (in A) steps from foul into fair and that's his position (!!). Leadoff batter hits a sgl, and I notice that he doesnt pivot and watch the touch of 1st. (Oh Oh!). This is followed by him calling time whenever R1 dives back into 1st on a possible pickoff, signaling safe when no play is made at a base, staying in C after the only runner, R3, is picked off (I'm trying to get his attention, pointing toward 1st). Every half inning, its something different, and I know I wont remember them all to discuss after the game- this guy is clueless- how did he get through the umpire class? We meet between innings a couple of times, and I'm trying to give him suggestions, but it doesnt seem to matter. 3rd inning, he comes in and asks what my signals to him meant (told him in pregame, but repeated the IFF, Time play, and "I'll be at 3rd on a hit w/R1" signals). I figure this guy is about 45 (physically,... mentally is another Q). I told him he should go to right field between innings, of course he doesnt, stands near 1st base, and has to jump out of the way of an errant warmup throw! (damn, it missed!) D3K with R2 and partner in "C", catcher chases ball and throws to F3, beating BR by a half step, and NO call from partner. He's looking at me, deer/headlight, but I just point at him (Its Your Call!). He beckons me, I call Time (R2 was just standing on third, BR on 1st). I ask what he saw, he says he was watching R2, I tell him to call BR out, he does, no coach complaints. After the inning, he asks me why he didnt make the original call (like I should know?). I'm thinking a full face slap but held back! Both teams are weak--pitchers cant find the plate, and defenses compete for the most errors, so after 3.5 hrs the game finally ends, thankfully by run rule at the end of 5. Walking away, partner says "that was a long 7 inning game" I didnt correct him......