2012 NCAA Test

[zm1283]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

[johnnyg08]

Yeah, this question doesn't make a lot of sense. Thanks zm.

[JaxRolo]

For FED guys out there the defense loses the right to appeal after they initiate a play.

Rule: 8-2-5

ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base (including home plate) or leaves a base too early, desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is subject to being declared out upon proper and successful appeal.

PENALTY (Art. 1 through 5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

Who is "they"? If the offense initiates a play, the defense does not lose their right to a proper appeal.

He is talking about the defense as "they". The defense loses the right to appeal if they initiate a play.

Correct. I thought I was pretty clear.

[Stretch]

In "a )A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction."

is not correct because it must be a fielder making this appeal for baserunning infractions.

[johnnyg08]

That was the first one I crossed off.

[KyleUmp]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

First thing that is key to understanding for this question is the definition on an appeal. The NCAA (which is all that matters for this test) defines an appeal as "the act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires." (2-1-Appeal). The key here is violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires. No judgment calls.

A. Batting out of order - violation of the rules by the opposing team & baserunning infraction - judgement

B. Half swing - appeal allowed & interference - judgement

C. Half swing - appeal allowed & coach aiding a runner (interference) - judgement

D. Half swing - appeal allowed & runner missing a base - appeal allowed

D is your answer.

[johnnyg08]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

First thing that is key to understanding for this question is the definition on an appeal. The NCAA (which is all that matters for this test) defines an appeal as "the act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires." (2-1-Appeal). The key here is violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires. No judgment calls.

A. Batting out of order - violation of the rules by the opposing team & baserunning infraction - judgement

B. Half swing - appeal allowed & interference - judgement

C. Half swing - appeal allowed & coach aiding a runner (interference) - judgement

D. Half swing - appeal allowed & running missing a base - appeal play

D is your answer.

Kyle, thank you for breaking down the question that way. That makes sense to me. Great post!

[Haid D' Salaami]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

First thing that is key to understanding for this question is the definition on an appeal. The NCAA (which is all that matters for this test) defines an appeal as "the act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires." (2-1-Appeal). The key here is violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires. No judgment calls.

A. Batting out of order - violation of the rules by the opposing team & baserunning infraction - judgement

B. Half swing - appeal allowed & interference - judgement

C. Half swing - appeal allowed & coach aiding a runner (interference) - judgement

D. Half swing - appeal allowed & running missing a base - appeal play

D is your answer.

and in your Answer "D" that would be ( in your opinion ) a judgement...

Judgement.. a baserunning fraction.. missing bases is not judgment...batting out of order is not judgment.

[Haid D' Salaami]

the thing is one the last question asked.. they are all judgement...

The answer is A...

[zm1283]

the thing is one the last question asked.. they are all judgement...

The answer is A...

Yeah I think that one is A and I would bet almost anything I got it wrong on my first try on the test. I am going to take the test again just to see what questions I get that I didn't get the first time.

[KyleUmp]

The more I read this question and read the last couple of responses the more I think this question is ambiguous to the point where it's nearly impossible to answer. B & C are not the answers. When I took the test, I read "a baserunning infraction" in A as interference by the baserunner, possible force play slide rule violation, etc. I still believe that D is a correct answer. Both of those things can happen. In reading what Haid has said it also appears as if A is a correct answer because you could read "baserunning infraction" as a missed base, failed tag up, etc. It depends what the committee meant by "baserunning infraction."

[Replacematt]

Before the game begins, the grounds crew must line …

a.The batter's box and the catcher's box.

b.The coach's boxes and the batter's box.

c.The batter's boxes and the coach's boxes.

d.The coach's box and the catcher's box.

I know the answer is A, but do B and C say the same thing?

[UmpTTS43]

Before the game begins, the grounds crew must line …

a.The batter's box and the catcher's box.

b.The coach's boxes and the batter's box.

c.The batter's boxes and the coach's boxes.

d.The coach's box and the catcher's box.

I know the answer is A, but do B and C say the same thing?

1 - Get an NCAA rule book

2 - Open it

3 - Read it

4 - Answer the question

I don't mean to sound harsh but for golly gee, do your own damn work. This applies to all tests as well. Do you really pass when you get an answer from a message board?

[Replacematt]

Before the game begins, the grounds crew must line …

a.The batter's box and the catcher's box.

b.The coach's boxes and the batter's box.

c.The batter's boxes and the coach's boxes.

d.The coach's box and the catcher's box.

I know the answer is A, but do B and C say the same thing?

1 - Get an NCAA rule book

2 - Open it

3 - Read it

4 - Answer the question

I don't mean to sound harsh but for golly gee, do your own damn work. This applies to all tests as well. Do you really pass when you get an answer from a message board?

Yeah, you do sound harsh, since you obviously didn't read what I posted.

[johnnyg08]

Before the game begins, the grounds crew must line …

a.The batter's box and the catcher's box.

b.The coach's boxes and the batter's box.

c.The batter's boxes and the coach's boxes.

d.The coach's box and the catcher's box.

I know the answer is A, but do B and C say the same thing?

1 - Get an NCAA rule book

2 - Open it

3 - Read it

4 - Answer the question

I don't mean to sound harsh but for golly gee, do your own damn work. This applies to all tests as well. Do you really pass when you get an answer from a message board?

We're all opening the book and reading it. Some of the questions are really ambiguous. Some of the best umpires I know get together in small study groups and ask each other about the confusing questions.

[Haid D' Salaami]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

First thing that is key to understanding for this question is the definition on an appeal. The NCAA (which is all that matters for this test) defines an appeal as "the act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires." (2-1-Appeal). The key here is violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires. No judgment calls.

A. Batting out of order - violation of the rules by the opposing team & baserunning infraction - judgement

B. Half swing - appeal allowed & interference - judgement

C. Half swing - appeal allowed & coach aiding a runner (interference) - judgement

D. Half swing - appeal allowed & runner missing a base - appeal allowed

D is your answer.

So how is your answer in "A" a judgment play.. but not in "D"?... its the same things... anytime a runner mises a bases or leaves on early or gets a running start it is judgment.

[noumpere]

This is a question from the 2012 NCAA Baseball guide (Q #11, Pg 11). They have the correct answer as C, based on 5-5b AR2. So apparently projected subs are allowed in NCAA.

While that's true one of the answers on the test was changed slightly from one of the answers in the Guide -- in the Guide answer D contains 'but the umpire cannot write the name in the lineup until the sub comes to bat' and on the test its 'the PU writes the name on the card' I think both B and C are correct on the test, but I went with B.

I am in the process of working through the test. I have had a few that are throwing me for a loop. I will go one at a time.

Here's the first:

R1, two outs. The starting pitcher has just been relieved by S1. The relief pitcher promptly throws the first three pitches well out of the strike zone. and then unsuccessfully attempts to pick off R1. His coach signals that he wants a second relief pitcher. S2 attempts to pick off R1 and throws the ball past F3. At that time, the PU wakes up and realizes that S1 had not completed pitching to the first batter he had faced.

a. Don't do anything and hope no one else notices the mistake.

b. Have a conference with your partner(s).

c. Let the play stand and then eject both S1 and S2

d. Let the wild pick-off play stand. Bring back S1 to finish his batter while S2 remains an eligible substitute.

Okay, so we know that S1 didn't pitch to one batter, the coach made a trip, and S2 is now in the game pitching to S1's first batter. The NCAA book says under 9-4-c(3) in the A.R. that if the umpire fails to recognize that the coach is making a second trip during the same batter, the coach is not penalized.

So he's not penalized, so S1 and S2 aren't going to be ejected, that eliminates C as a choice. I suppose you could have a conference with your partners to straighten it out, so B is a possibility. I'm thinking D at this point, but the rule book doesn't specify what do to if this happens. (At least not the part I've found so far) Anyone?

Theres a study guide out there that has this play and has D as the correct answer which doesnt make sense to me but it is what it is. What do you do if S1 already has his shoulder iced and does he get more warmups etc.

[KyleUmp]

What am I over thinking here? I'm reading about all of the appeals and the only ones that seem to mention "coach" is half swings.

The rule book defines the term "appeal" as the "act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires."

a. A coach may appeal a batting out of order to the PU and also appeal to the appropriate base umpire for a baserunning infraction.

b. A catcher may appeal to the PU for a half swing and that the runner sliding at second was guilty of interference.

c. A coach may appeal to the PU to "check" for a half swing or to the base umpire because the base coach was guilty of aiding a runner.

d. A first baseman may appeal to the PU for a half- swing or to any umpire for a runner at third for not retouching legally.

I answered D and at least one other college umpire I know did the same. I will admit I was clueless when I saw this question. It's not B or C for sure. In A, does "baserunning infraction" mean missing a base or leaving early?

First thing that is key to understanding for this question is the definition on an appeal. The NCAA (which is all that matters for this test) defines an appeal as "the act of a player or coach claiming a violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires." (2-1-Appeal). The key here is violation of the rules by the opposing team or misinterpretation of them by the umpires. No judgment calls.

A. Batting out of order - violation of the rules by the opposing team & baserunning infraction - judgement

B. Half swing - appeal allowed & interference - judgement

C. Half swing - appeal allowed & coach aiding a runner (interference) - judgement

D. Half swing - appeal allowed & runner missing a base - appeal allowed

D is your answer.

So how is your answer in "A" a judgment play.. but not in "D"?... its the same things... anytime a runner mises a bases or leaves on early or gets a running start it is judgment.

They are all judgments. (Most) everything an umpire does involves judgment. The rules specifically allow for certain things to be appealed and those are what I am refering to and I think you know that. Obviously whether or not a runner missed a base or left early is a judgment by the umpire, however the rules dictate that the defense must appeal to the umpire in order for that to be called.

What do you take "baserunning infraction" to mean and why? Just curious, because there is only one place in the entire rule book that even mentions "base-running infraction." It's under the definition for Last Time By under the approved ruling. "Baserunning infraction" is not defined.

[KyleUmp]

Before the game begins, the grounds crew must line …

a.The batter's box and the catcher's box.

b.The coach's boxes and the batter's box.

c.The batter's boxes and the coach's boxes.

d.The coach's box and the catcher's box.

I know the answer is A, but do B and C say the same thing?

1 - Get an NCAA rule book

2 - Open it

3 - Read it

4 - Answer the question

I don't mean to sound harsh but for golly gee, do your own damn work. This applies to all tests as well. Do you really pass when you get an answer from a message board?

I agree with the "do your own damn work" comment, however asking fellow umpires what they think, etc. doesn't mean someone isn't doing their own work. I was on a conference call last week with several D1 umpires with whom I work conference ball with and each of us had questions about how the other was interpreting the questions & answers. These are guys with years of Regional and Super Regional experience. If you had read his question then I think you would agree that your post was out-of-line.

I am new to this board because I found it generally caters to the high school & travel/rec league umpire. I just started posting recently and this "holier than thou" attitude that some have it a huge turnoff. Forums, in general, are a great tool. It's a way to get guys talking about baseball, talking about umpiring, and learning. Nobody has anything to prove on the computer screen. It's not one persons job to judge another's question. Alienating someone on a message board because you don't like their question is silly. Yes, take the test yourself. Dive into the rulebook and work for it. If you have a question or just want to talk about something that's in there then I say, by all means, ask away. Ignore the negativity.

[UmpTTS43]

You are correct. I failed to read your question completely. My apologies. Was a bit on edge I guess.

[yawetag]

I just started posting recently and this "holier than thou" attitude that some have it a huge turnoff.

Kyle, I can assure this attitude is small here in comparison to other umpire forums. In my opinion, it's one of the reasons this site thrives with information and discussion while the others seem to be declining in traffic.

[BT_Blue]

I just started posting recently and this "holier than thou" attitude that some have it a huge turnoff.

Kyle, I can assure this attitude is small here in comparison to other umpire forums. In my opinion, it's one of the reasons this site thrives with information and discussion while the others seem to be declining in traffic.

Ive been a member of several different forums. I havent been on any of them in over a year. This past week I decided to come back to U-E. I decided that because I know the guys on here know their stuff and there isnt a "god" complex on here save for a couple guys. I will not go back to those other sites. But I will stay here as long as Warren has the site going.

[KyleUmp]

I just started posting recently and this "holier than thou" attitude that some have it a huge turnoff.

Kyle, I can assure this attitude is small here in comparison to other umpire forums. In my opinion, it's one of the reasons this site thrives with information and discussion while the others seem to be declining in traffic.

Ive been a member of several different forums. I havent been on any of them in over a year. This past week I decided to come back to U-E. I decided that because I know the guys on here know their stuff and there isnt a "god" complex on here save for a couple guys. I will not go back to those other sites. But I will stay here as long as Warren has the site going.

I am not suggesting the site is inherently bad. I wouldn't have joined the discussion if I felt that way. It has just became pretty obvious to me who on here thinks they know everything and everyone else is beneath them. Yes, it's only a small handful of people, but that minority can still disrupt what this forum is all about. You want people to freely speak up and ask questions and get a dialogue going. That's all. Just my soapbox for the day.

[BT_Blue]

Its like being in any umpire group. There are some that are beginners, some that are in the middle, and some that are on TOP. And in all of those you will find people that think they are smarter and more knowledgeable than they are. Its just a matter of seperating the crap from the true. And Ive been guessing you have been around the block before and can do just that.

[johnnyg08]

We were told by a strong authority that we were to assume an appeal on this question which would lead me to believe the answer would be A. For the life of me, I can't help but answer D on this question.

What say you?

Question #17

The bases are loaded with two outs. B1 hits a home run over the fence. R2 misses third on his way to the plate. All other bases are touched properly.

a.No runs are scored.

b.Three runs are scored.

c.Two runs are scored.

d.Four runs are scored.