2012 NCAA Test

[UmpJM]

Johnny,

"C" is the correct answer in all three codes - the answer key is simply wrong on the NCAA test.

JM

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

Hide the Salami,

Which rule in the book are you referring to?

There is no rule in the NCAA book under which the runner would properly be declared out under the circumstances described in the test question.

There are two that say he is not out.

Perhaps you're using a different book?

JM

[cookie]

Johnny,

"C" is the correct answer in all three codes - the answer key is simply wrong on the NCAA test.

JM

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

Haid D'Salaami,

Here is a quote straight out of the 2012 PBUC Manual (OBR based) that serves as the basic rules interpretation guide for those students moving up in Pro ball. I don't know why NCAA would have anything different here:

Play 3: Runner on first base, one out. Runner is running on the next pitch. The batter hits a ground ball back toward the pitcher. The pitcher deflects the ball in the direction of the second baseman who definitely has a chance to make a play on it. However, the ball strikes the runner before it reaches the second baseman.

Ruling 3: Runner from first is not out; the ball remains live and in play (assuming no intentional interference by the runner)...

Again, I don't know why NCAA would have it any differently...

[zm1283]

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

You're incorrect. Please give us a rule reference if we're all wrong.

[zm1283]

Haid D'Salaami,

Here is a quote straight out of the 2012 PBUC Manual (OBR based) that serves as the basic rules interpretation guide for those students moving up in Pro ball. I don't know why NCAA would have anything different here:

Play 3: Runner on first base, one out. Runner is running on the next pitch. The batter hits a ground ball back toward the pitcher. The pitcher deflects the ball in the direction of the second baseman who definitely has a chance to make a play on it. However, the ball strikes the runner before it reaches the second baseman.

Ruling 3: Runner from first is not out; the ball remains live and in play (assuming no intentional interference by the runner)...

Again, I don't know why NCAA would have it any differently...

You're correct. The NCAA screwed this one up.

[Haid D' Salaami]

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

You're incorrect. Please give us a rule reference if we're all wrong.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Haid D'Salaami,

Here is a quote straight out of the 2012 PBUC Manual (OBR based) that serves as the basic rules interpretation guide for those students moving up in Pro ball. I don't know why NCAA would have anything different here:

Play 3: Runner on first base, one out. Runner is running on the next pitch. The batter hits a ground ball back toward the pitcher. The pitcher deflects the ball in the direction of the second baseman who definitely has a chance to make a play on it. However, the ball strikes the runner before it reaches the second baseman.

Ruling 3: Runner from first is not out; the ball remains live and in play (assuming no intentional interference by the runner)...

Again, I don't know why NCAA would have it any differently...

You're correct. The NCAA screwed this one up.

why would the NCAA have it different.. cause it is there set of rules... thats why..why do they use a FPSR?.. why is there a collision rule?...

learn the rule set in which you umpire. its easy.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Johnny,

"C" is the correct answer in all three codes - the answer key is simply wrong on the NCAA test.

JM

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

Hide the Salami,

Which rule in the book are you referring to?

There is no rule in the NCAA book under which the runner would properly be declared out under the circumstances described in the test question.

There are two that say he is not out.

Perhaps you're using a different book?

JM

[Haid D' Salaami]

not on my test.. and not in the book.. runner is out.. it's simple..

You're incorrect. Please give us a rule reference if we're all wrong.

8-5k

k. The runner, including a runner in contact with a base, is hit while in fair

territory by a batted ball before it has touched a fielder or passed all

infielders who have a chance to make a play on the ball, other than the

pitcher. If two runners are hit by the same fair ball, only the first runner

is out (see 6-2-e).

[UmpJM]

Hide the Salami,

I did and have. Since the runner did not collide with a fielder, 8-5d, A.R. 2 has nothing to do with the NCAA question.

The relevant cites are 6-1c and 8-5k - which deal with the situation described in the NCAA question: a runner hit by a batted ball which has been deflected by a fielder.

Do you know how it makes you look when you "shout" an incorrect answer?

Learn the rule set under which you umpire.

JM

[KyleUmp]

Hide the Salami,

I did and have. Since the runner did not collide with a fielder, 8-5d, A.R. 2 has nothing to do with the NCAA question.

The relevant cites are 6-1c and 8-5k - which deal with the situation described in the NCAA question: a runner hit by a batted ball which has been deflected by a fielder.

Do you know how it makes you look when you "shout" an incorrect answer?

Learn the rule set under which you umpire.

JM

The pitcher is not a fielder.

[UmpTTS43]

Hide the Salami,

I did and have. Since the runner did not collide with a fielder, 8-5d, A.R. 2 has nothing to do with the NCAA question.

The relevant cites are 6-1c and 8-5k - which deal with the situation described in the NCAA question: a runner hit by a batted ball which has been deflected by a fielder.

Do you know how it makes you look when you "shout" an incorrect answer?

Learn the rule set under which you umpire.

JM

The pitcher is not a fielder.

Now that's funny. Talk about needing to read AND understand the rule book.

UmpJM is correct. Don't believe him, read the rules he cited.

[UmpJM]

Kyle,

The pitcher is not a fielder.

For the condition of a batted ball passing a fielder, your assertion is correct - more or less.

For the condition of a batted ball touching a fielder, your assertion is incorrect.

JM

[KyleUmp]

Kyle,

The pitcher is not a fielder.

For the condition of a batted ball passing a fielder, your assertion is correct - more or less.

For the condition of a batted ball touching a fielder, your assertion is incorrect.

JM

In the question referenced above the ball did not touch the pitcher. It deflected off of his glove.

[UmpJM]

Kyle,

You're kidding, right?

If it deflected off the pitcher's glove, for the purpose of the rule, it touched the pitcher.

JM

[Haid D' Salaami]

Hide the Salami,

I did and have. Since the runner did not collide with a fielder, 8-5d, A.R. 2 has nothing to do with the NCAA question.

The relevant cites are 6-1c and 8-5k - which deal with the situation described in the NCAA question: a runner hit by a batted ball which has been deflected by a fielder.

Do you know how it makes you look when you "shout" an incorrect answer?

Learn the rule set under which you umpire.

JM

I posted 8-5k.. now read the rule..

8-5k

k. The runner, including a runner in contact with a base, is hit while in fair

territory by a batted ball before it has touched a fielder or passed all

infielders who have a chance to make a play on the ball, other than the

pitcher

[UmpJM]

Hide the Salami,

That's a flat-out lie. You posted the text of 8-5d A.R.2 and exaggerated the font of some of its text that was completely irrelevant to the NCAA test question. Then you went back and edited your post after I pointed out your error. I'm sure Warren can verify that you edited your post after my reply.

You have the sense of humor of a twelve year old who thinks he's clever, you don't know jack about umpiring, and you are a liar - and a troll.

Bye.

JM

[zm1283]

Hide the Salami,

I did and have. Since the runner did not collide with a fielder, 8-5d, A.R. 2 has nothing to do with the NCAA question.

The relevant cites are 6-1c and 8-5k - which deal with the situation described in the NCAA question: a runner hit by a batted ball which has been deflected by a fielder.

Do you know how it makes you look when you "shout" an incorrect answer?

Learn the rule set under which you umpire.

JM

I posted 8-5k.. now read the rule..

8-5k

k. The runner, including a runner in contact with a base, is hit while in fair

territory by a batted ball before it has touched a fielder or passed all

infielders who have a chance to make a play on the ball, other than the

pitcher

See the part in red. It touched a fielder, so the runner is not out. You're making yourself look foolish.

Learn the rules under which you umpire.

[UmpTTS43]

NCAA Rule 6-1c

If a fair-hit ball passes by all infielders or it is touched by a fielder and then touches a runner or an umpire, the ball is in play and the runner is not out. If saidball should touch athe runner or umpire while still in flight, thereafter it shall be considered a ground ball. It cannot be caught as a fly ball.

Salaami, this is the rule, in conjunction with 8-5k, that states, unequivicably, that a runner is not out when touched by a deflected fair batted ball.

[JaxRolo]

Kyle,

The pitcher is not a fielder.

For the condition of a batted ball passing a fielder, your assertion is correct - more or less.

For the condition of a batted ball touching a fielder, your assertion is incorrect.

JM

In the question referenced above the ball did not touch the pitcher. It deflected off of his glove.

mmmmm so a line drive that deflects of the pitchers glove and goes into foul territory before it passes 1st or 3rd is a foul ball?

Yikes!!!! Think about what you just said!!!

[Haid D' Salaami]

I edited my post right away, ask warren....I did edit it.... but i reposted the correct rule....

And be careful who you are calling a troll.. pretty sure I have been umpiring longer and at a higher level than you do.... I was not angry with you, nor have i been, so there is no need to be name calling here.

[Haid D' Salaami]

NCAA Rule 6-1c

If a fair-hit ball passes by all infielders or it is touched by a fielder and then touches a runner or an umpire, the ball is in play and the runner is not out. If saidball should touch athe runner or umpire while still in flight, thereafter it shall be considered a ground ball. It cannot be caught as a fly ball.

Salaami, this is the rule, in conjunction with 8-5k, that states, unequivicably, that a runner is not out when touched by a deflected fair batted ball.

I got that part.. but when you read 8-5k.. it sounds different.. and is a touched ball not a deflected ball?...just like Jax just posted what if it is a line drive off the pitcher glove and goes foul, is it a foul ball? what if a pitcher deflectes the ball off his foot and it rolls foul? should that not be a fair ball?

[Haid D' Salaami]

Hide the Salami,

That's a flat-out lie. You posted the text of 8-5d A.R.2 and exaggerated the font of some of its text that was completely irrelevant to the NCAA test question. Then you went back and edited your post after I pointed out your error. I'm sure Warren can verify that you edited your post after my reply.

You have the sense of humor of a twelve year old who thinks he's clever, you don't know jack about umpiring, and you are a liar - and a troll.

Bye.

JM

just so we are on the same page, I edited my post at 8:54pm.. your post was 9:08 pm.. so i didnt repost after you....sorry that you think that.

[johnnyg08]

JM, I know you've been absent as a poster the last few months. Haid D' Salaami has been an extremely beneficial part of this forum since he joined in November.

His mechanics knowledge and rules knowledge are indicative of somebody who has been professionally trained and knows what he's talking about...from what I read of his posts, he seems to communicate what he knows in a manner that is a model of what I think matches Warren's vision.

[Haid D' Salaami]

thanks Johnny

[zm1283]

JM, I know you've been absent as a poster the last few months. Haid D' Salaami has been an extremely beneficial part of this forum since he joined in November.

His mechanics knowledge and rules knowledge are indicative of somebody who has been professionally trained and knows what he's talking about...from what I read of his posts, he seems to communicate what he knows in a manner that is a model of what I think matches Warren's vision.

Salami isn't a new poster. He has been here longer than November, albeit under a different name.